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In which language should I contact agencies in countries whose national language(s) I do not speak?
Thread poster: Vivien Green
philgoddard
philgoddard
United States
German to English
+ ...
I posted a similar question about which currency to use... Jul 30, 2017

... and many people said stick to your own, dollars in my case. In the past, I quoted prices in pounds or euro to European customers and absorbed the exchange-rate hit. But since the pound has collapsed, I've taken the advice of my fellow ProZers and found many new customers perfectly happy to pay in dollars.

 
Vivien Green
Vivien Green  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
Responses... Jul 30, 2017

Hmm, interesting that you were told to stick to your own currency Phil but then I'm not sure I'd get the same advice given my home currency is the Pound. On the one hand it's cheap for those overseas at the moment but on the other hand it makes comparisons harder for people reading my marketing pitch email. I'm wondering if I should just omit any reference to a minimum rate and discuss it with every agency individually. Tell them my rates are "competitive" and leave it at that? Tina (and others)... See more
Hmm, interesting that you were told to stick to your own currency Phil but then I'm not sure I'd get the same advice given my home currency is the Pound. On the one hand it's cheap for those overseas at the moment but on the other hand it makes comparisons harder for people reading my marketing pitch email. I'm wondering if I should just omit any reference to a minimum rate and discuss it with every agency individually. Tell them my rates are "competitive" and leave it at that? Tina (and others) - do you quote a minimum rate to overseas clients when you first approach them?

I wouldn't want to be forced to communicate in Japanese Tomás so I'm very glad everyone thinks it is acceptable to write in English! I was just worried it might be shooting myself in the foot.
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Christine Andersen
Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 10:14
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
Don't quote a rate, especially not your minimum! Jul 31, 2017

As for applying to countries where your languages are not spoken - they are spoken all over the EU and in many other parts of the world. There will be more, not less, need for translation where they are not the country's own language...
This applies, even to a supposedly less widespread language like Danish - Danes trade literally all over the world and generate needs for translations into English everywhere, if only for retranslation into other languages. (That remark is for the benefit
... See more
As for applying to countries where your languages are not spoken - they are spoken all over the EU and in many other parts of the world. There will be more, not less, need for translation where they are not the country's own language...
This applies, even to a supposedly less widespread language like Danish - Danes trade literally all over the world and generate needs for translations into English everywhere, if only for retranslation into other languages. (That remark is for the benefit of anyone wondering, not Vivien Green, who has clearly thought it out!)

However, I would not give my minimum rate in any currency. Anyone can say 'I'm cheap', and it is very difficult to raise your rate later. Market yourself on quality and value for money, because that is what the best clients are looking for. Having the self confidence to ask for a realistic rate for a professional job is a positive sign. But negotiate with each client individually.

What clients will (or can) pay varies enormously in different parts of the world. You can accept a lower rate where you are not going to get any more anyway, but it is still worth your while, and ask for more in regions where earnings generally are high.

Then you can also quote in different currencies for different clients, and take bank charges into account where applicable. Pounds drop straight into your account in the UK, while banks may charge quite a lot for transferring other currencies, and you may need to consider PayPal or something like that instead. (And rethink it all again after Brexit - Danish banks take quite a chunk out of my invoices from Norway!) Watch out if you take on small jobs.

Best of luck!
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José Henrique Lamensdorf
José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 06:14
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
My views on minimum/best/otherwise varying rates Jul 31, 2017

Vivien Green wrote:

I'm wondering if I should just omit any reference to a minimum rate and discuss it with every agency individually. Tell them my rates are "competitive" and leave it at that? Tina (and others) - do you quote a minimum rate to overseas clients when you first approach them?


Christine Andersen wrote:

However, I would not give my minimum rate in any currency. Anyone can say 'I'm cheap', and it is very difficult to raise your rate later. Market yourself on quality and value for money, because that is what the best clients are looking for. Having the self confidence to ask for a realistic rate for a professional job is a positive sign. But negotiate with each client individually.

What clients will (or can) pay varies enormously in different parts of the world. You can accept a lower rate where you are not going to get any more anyway, but it is still worth your while, and ask for more in regions where earnings generally are high.


I always wonder if a restaurant would have, say, three menus, with different prices for the same food. So the mâitre d' would instruct the waiter:
- People at table 6 are chatting in DE-CH, they should be bankers. Giv'em the top prices menu.
- Folks at table 9 are locals, give them the standard menu.
- Those guys at table 3 look like refugees, give them the minimum prices menu.

One of my tenets is to keep an uncompromisingly high level of service. If it's a job visibly from the USA for Brazil, why should I charge less to do that very same amount of work for a translation agency located in New Delhi, than I would from an agency in New York?

Another tenet I hold is transparency. I keep translation costs separate from financial costs. Once a client has chosen me to do the translation work, I think they should be free to select where they get their financial services, if they need them. As a professional translator, I'm proud of not being a good financial services provider. I've checked, and my bank does NOT offer translation services at all. Why should I be competing with them in their turf?

So my translation rates are fixed. If they are relatively too expensive is another issue. Back to the restaurant analogy, I'd guess that fresh lobster should be much more expensive in Zurich than in Boston. If they want translation into PT-BR done in Brazil, they ought to pay Brazilian prices. And I could name one or two dozen translators I know here in Brazil who do work equivalent to mine, in the same language pair, and who charge the same rates I do.

However they can choose among different financial services options.

For instance, PayPal - which is owned by and supposedly conceived for eBay - imposes severe penalties to the seller (translator) for surcharging the buyer (translation client) for their fees. So my standard rate is stated "for payment via PayPal in two weeks". Clients willing to pay via bank transfer or P2P (Western Union, Moneygram) have a 10% discount, which is the total deduction* I have on whatever I receive via PayPal. Once PayPal is outside the deal, they can't apply any sanctions, and nobody can forbid me to give discounts to anyone as I please.

*6.5% in fees + 3.5% in lower-than-market currency exchange rates

Interest rates in Brazil are huge. To give an idea, our APR on credit cards is 490% (sic!). AFAIK in the USA it's under 25%. So if they prefer to pay in two business days instead of two weeks, they get another 6.7% discount.

Bottom line is that my translation rate doesn't change, there is no "minimum rate". However my client has options to minimize their expenditure in financial services, which I'm not interested in providing.


 
Christine Andersen
Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 10:14
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
I find it necessary to have a range of rates Jul 31, 2017

I don't always have enough of the top-paying clients to keep me busy, so I fit others in as I can. Some of the high-rate clients are a lot more trouble than others. You would not find a restaurant that would charge the same for just a cup of coffee or 'today's special' as for the 'a la carte' menu. OK, there are places where you can eat all you can from a buffet for a set price, and others that charge the same for a pizza, no matter what the flavour. I don't run that kind of business.

... See more
I don't always have enough of the top-paying clients to keep me busy, so I fit others in as I can. Some of the high-rate clients are a lot more trouble than others. You would not find a restaurant that would charge the same for just a cup of coffee or 'today's special' as for the 'a la carte' menu. OK, there are places where you can eat all you can from a buffet for a set price, and others that charge the same for a pizza, no matter what the flavour. I don't run that kind of business.

That still leaves the fact that if I want to work with UK agencies, they simply cannot or will not pay more than around 80% of what the best Scandinavian agencies pay. I don't have a single standard rate for them either. If they typically send me straight forward tourist texts, I charge less than I charge others, who mostly send demanding medical work. I have three different rates with one agency, depending on the type of job.

I do in fact tell Indian agencies that if they are going to work with translators who live in Scandinavia, then they have to pay rates a translator can live on in Scandinavia. (I've seen big end clients dropping Scandinavian agencies and trying to get the same job done for a fraction of the price by going through an Indian agency.) I have also worked with agencies who did not need to be told - because of course, they pass the bill on to the end client anyway.

I quote according to the kind of job with agencies from other countries, but I know that some will refuse to pay what I ask. They may offer me a viable rate even so. If I have time, I go along with it, but not below a certain minimum.

Translation is not like groceries or pizza. There is no standard rate anyway. Transferring Euros though the banks is a lot cheaper than transferring some other currencies. I live in in Europe but not in the Eurozone, and the picture is very different from the situation in Brazil. I do let clients choose. But if they want to use a bank, and the bank then docks 40% of the amount transferred, then I set my rate up. So yes, I do actually adjust my rates to the client, the kind of job, and which market I am dealing with. That is how the real world works!
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José Henrique Lamensdorf
José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 06:14
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
Of course! Jul 31, 2017

Christine Andersen wrote:

I find it necessary to have a range of rates

I don't always have enough of the top-paying clients to keep me busy, so I fit others in as I can. Some of the high-rate clients are a lot more trouble than others. You would not find a restaurant that would charge the same for just a cup of coffee or 'today's special' as for the 'a la carte' menu. OK, there are places where you can eat all you can from a buffet for a set price, and others that charge the same for a pizza, no matter what the flavour. I don't run that kind of business.


Of course, you have different rates for different services.
What I mean is that the restaurant won't have different prices for the coffee, today's special, the all-you-can-eat buffet, nor the top specialty for different customers, say, because one is wearing an Armani suit, and the other probably has nothing under those rags.

Christine Andersen wrote:
That still leaves the fact that if I want to work with UK agencies, they simply cannot or will not pay more than around 80% of what the best Scandinavian agencies pay. I don't have a single standard rate for them either. If they typically send me straight forward tourist texts, I charge less than I charge others, who mostly send demanding medical work. I have three different rates with one agency, depending on the type of job.


You also have your strategies. Some colleagues thrive on discounts for fuzzy matches. Not my case, however giving repeated segments for free in training courseware (e.g. course leader's guide + participant workbooks + PPT slides) often means a BIG discount that costs me nothing.

Christine Andersen wrote:
I do in fact tell Indian agencies that if they are going to work with translators who live in Scandinavia, then they have to pay rates a translator can live on in Scandinavia. (I've seen big end clients dropping Scandinavian agencies and trying to get the same job done for a fraction of the price by going through an Indian agency.) I have also worked with agencies who did not need to be told - because of course, they pass the bill on to the end client anyway.


This is the main issue here. Many Indian agencies seem to think that globalization includes having Indian rates from anywhere in the world. However there are not so many translators into Western languages in India charging such low rates.

Christine Andersen wrote:
I quote according to the kind of job with agencies from other countries, but I know that some will refuse to pay what I ask. They may offer me a viable rate even so. If I have time, I go along with it, but not below a certain minimum.


Another valid point: availability. When your demand is low, it is okay to lower prices. However beware of Murphy's Law! Chances are that on a low tide one might accept a job at grovelling rate, to be offered a high-paying opportunity immediately thereafter.

So where is the solution for this? IMHO it's in extended deadlines. If the required turnaround is longer, the odds will be higher to have a low tide in this meantime. No reduced rates for rush jobs.

Christine Andersen wrote:
Translation is not like groceries or pizza. There is no standard rate anyway. Transferring Euros though the banks is a lot cheaper than transferring some other currencies. I live in in Europe but not in the Eurozone, and the picture is very different from the situation in Brazil. I do let clients choose. But if they want to use a bank, and the bank then docks 40% of the amount transferred, then I set my rate up. So yes, I do actually adjust my rates to the client, the kind of job, and which market I am dealing with. That is how the real world works!


The matter is how much cash in local currency you'll get immediately after the translation job has been delivered. Assume that you'd need that money forthwith. If they'll pay you any time later, check how much a local bank would charge for lending such amount for that time span. If part of the funds will be eroded by payment methods on the way, compare the various options available and their respective costs. These are what I consider "financial costs". As long as I'm deliberately out of the money lending business (though some clients force me to do it), I think clients should have a choice. Bottom line is: while I decide how much clients should pay for my translation services, I think it is fair to let them choose how much they will spend on financial services.


 
Gerard de Noord
Gerard de Noord  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:14
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
One more tip Aug 1, 2017

When dealing with non-native clients keep your English as simple as possible.

"You'll have the translation by next Tuesday" might be clear to native speakers but many non-natives have trouble understanding "by" and "next" in this context. Write: "I'll send you the translation by e-mail on Tuesday the 17th or earlier." You'll spare people the embarrassment of having to ask what you mean.

Cheers,
Gerard


 
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In which language should I contact agencies in countries whose national language(s) I do not speak?







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