| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Regarding cat tools Thread poster: Uma Harilal
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neilmac
Spain
Local time: 08:29
Spanish to English
+ ...
Samuel Murray wrote:
It is possible to translate some Excel and PowerPoint files using Wordfast Classic, but it aint simple to do, so you may as well assume that Wordfast Classic works only with MS Word files.
I beg to differ. I have never had any problem translating Excel or PPT files with WF Classic (I just finished off an XL translation this morning). If it were anything other than easy-peasy and virtually idiot-proof, I wouldn't be claiming otherwise, since I'm no IT whizz.
For XL or PPT, simply open the file and open a new Word document with WF open. Click on the Word file and - off you go! Couldn't be simpler. When you reach the end, you simply clean up the document and the XL or PPT file.
| | | | | Reasons for lack of popularity? | Jun 29, 2014 |
Michael Beijer wrote:
Ha ha, no, there's no need to qualify anything. It's simply the best.
It's always difficult to argue with fanboys. CafeTran has been around since 2005, a little bit before memoQ (Kilgray was founded in 2004, but they only started selling memoQ in 2007). The list price of CafeTran is 80 euros, vs. 620 euros for memoQ. memoQ has sold 55,000 licenses so far, CafeTran probably 200, 500 at most (at any rate, less than 1,000, by its creator's own admission). What logical explanations could there be to this state of affairs? You need a Mensa-class IQ in order to be able to grasp the immense superiority of CafeTran? 99% of translators are total morons who are wasting their money in other inferior and overpriced tools? You can blame clever and deceiving marketing by competitors up to a point, but if CafeTran were the best tool for everyone in absolute terms, its market share wouldn't be what it currently is, insignificant, and its user base would be more than a tiny cult ring.
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neilmac wrote:
I beg to differ. I have never had any problem translating Excel or PPT files with WF Classic (I just finished off an XL translation this morning).
You may never have had any problem, but that doesn't mean it's the case for everyone else. In fact, the reference manual does warn about possible pitfalls:This feature should be tested before use, because WFC may have difficulties initiating the necessary Ms-Office links.
Note that complex or ill-written PowerPoint presentation may cause WFC to stall. Those are presentations, where, for example, many small textboxes have been used to mimick a table layout; where too many pictures have been piled up on the same page; note that embedded objects (Excel spreasheets for example) will not be offered for translation: the embedded object must be translated with the original tool, then reimported in the presentation. However, the most serious limitation is the one I mentioned earlier: support for translating PowerPoint and Excel files in WFC has disappeared from the current versions of MS Office, which means the feature is a dead-end.
Even with a supported version of MS Office and when the feature works, it has a serious inherent restriction: you must get your translation right the first time around, as it's cumbersome to modify it once it has been sent to Office/Excel.
Old-timers like Neil may want to continue to use this method for as long as it works, but newcomers should consider other options IMO.
| | | | Alan Halls 
Germany
Local time: 08:29
German to English
| Important to think about your needs first | Jun 29, 2014 |
I love discussions like this. They remind me of discussions about the "best car", "best guitarist" etc. People tend to think that, after 15 years of using a certain CAT tool, they have the best available. So do I, but I approached the topic back in 1999 (when there were only a handful of such tools around and all were new) by test driving all of them I could find and trying to concentrate on what features I really needed. Since I worked then and now for a broad range of customers in a number of ... See more I love discussions like this. They remind me of discussions about the "best car", "best guitarist" etc. People tend to think that, after 15 years of using a certain CAT tool, they have the best available. So do I, but I approached the topic back in 1999 (when there were only a handful of such tools around and all were new) by test driving all of them I could find and trying to concentrate on what features I really needed. Since I worked then and now for a broad range of customers in a number of different fields, a key issue for me was storing terminology accurately (with photos of the items where necessary) in such a way that, as I moved from one segment to the next, my customer-specific dictionary would immediately show me both the terms and images so I could not ignore them. I don't like the idea of having to check back to some list of terms or concordance searches "just in case" as this slows me down. I find that using my favourite tool has made me about 30% more productive in terms of volumes translated and dramatically improved quality, because of the features in the tool.
One other aspect I delved into was how the tools store the translated segments. Most of them use a database system that is like the play areas for kids in large furniture shops and department stores, where you have a million and a half coloured balls for the kids to wallow in.
This is exactly how most of these tools store translated segments. Suppose you only want to see the "red" ones? Or only the "blue" ones? In other words, where is the context? Some tools store the translated DOCUMENTS rather than just disconnected segments so referring back to a specific translation you did 6 years ago is a doddle, you can reconstruct the entire context at the push of a button.
This was another decisive issue for me.
So now some of you know what my favourite tool is ))
Trial runs are crucial, in-depth discussions with pros and clients are indispensible. Take your time.
[Edited at 2014-06-29 11:38 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:29
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| You hit the nail right on the head. | Jun 29, 2014 |
Hi Dominique,
Dominique Pivard wrote: Michael Beijer wrote:
Ha ha, no, there's no need to qualify anything. It's simply the best.
It's always difficult to argue with fanboys. CafeTran has been around since 2005, a little bit before memoQ (Kilgray was founded in 2004, but they only started selling memoQ in 2007). The list price of CafeTran is 80 euros, vs. 620 euros for memoQ. memoQ has sold 55,000 licenses so far, CafeTran probably 200, 500 at most (at any rate, less than 1,000, by its creator's own admission). What logical explanations could there be to this state of affairs? You need a Mensa-class IQ in order to be able to grasp the immense superiority of CafeTran? 99% of translators are total morons who are wasting their money in other inferior and overpriced tools? You can blame clever and deceiving marketing by competitors up to a point, but if CafeTran were the best tool for everyone in absolute terms, its market share wouldn't be what it currently is, insignificant, and its user base would be more than a tiny cult ring.
But seriously, the reason CafeTran has hardly any users compared to SDL and memoQ is that its developer isn’t as active in promoting it. He prefers to spend his time coding. And I wouldn’t have it any other way. Igor can pop out an amazing new feature overnight that would take SDL or Kilgray a full year to implement (poorly). It is not in CafeTran’s tiny cult following’s interest to see Igor become another Kilgray or SDL. The bigger those companies get, the worse their software will become. Studio and memoQ are getting bigger and bigger, more and more full of bugs and slowing down ... ‘Labyrinthine monstrosities’ is a phrase that keeps popping up in my head. Oh yeah, and please don’t think that I believe that this is anyone’s fault. I love the Kilgray team, they are all really nice people. It's just how things go ... in the grand scheme of things.
Michael
PS: a second reason why CafeTran isn’t taking the market by storm is that its documentation is a complete shambles (sorry Hans), making it a little difficult for newbies to get up to speed quickly. of couse, there is the mailing list where people can ask questions and get help (pretty much 24/7), and the newish volunteer-authored help site cafetranhelp.com, but still ...
[Edited at 2014-06-29 12:07 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 08:29
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Doing PPT and XLS in WFC | Jun 29, 2014 |
neilmac wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
It is possible to translate some Excel and PowerPoint files using Wordfast Classic, but it aint simple to do, so you may as well assume that Wordfast Classic works only with MS Word files. I have never had any problem translating Excel or PPT files with WF Classic. ... For XL or PPT, simply open the file and open a new Word document with WF open. Click on the Word file and - off you go! When you reach the end, you simply clean up the document and the XL or PPT file.
Yes, that is the theory, but it doesn't always work (also speaking from experience) and you can't tell in advance whether it will work or not. The safest thing to do when doing PPT or XLS in WFC is to do the translation in one sitting.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 08:29
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Reasons for lack of popularity | Jun 29, 2014 |
Dominique Pivard wrote: Michael Beijer wrote:
Ha ha, no, there's no need to qualify anything. It's simply the best. CafeTran has been around since 2005, a little bit before memoQ. The list price of CafeTran is 80 euros, vs. 620 euros for memoQ. memoQ has sold 55,000 licenses so far, CafeTran probably 200, 500 at most (at any rate, less than 1,000, by its creator's own admission). What logical explanations could there be to this state of affairs?
Well, for one, MemoQ is run like a business and CafeTran is run like a hobby. MemoQ has staff whose sole job it is to campaign and market the product, whereas CafeTran has one developer, and that's that. MemoQ as a business can offer guarantees to service providers and agencies that CafeTran's developer can't. There is nothing surprising about this state of affairs.
And MemoQ also has fanboys... for example, a certain set of Youtube videos by a well-known guru...
| | | | Drew MacFadyen
United States
Local time: 02:29
Spanish to English
+ ...
| http://www.proz.com/software-comparison-tool | Jun 30, 2014 |
You can find specifications, free trials, user reviews and more at ProZ.com's software comparison tool - http://www.proz.com/software-comparison-tool
Regards,
Drew
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2nl (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 08:29
| Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:29
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
I couldn’t have said that better myself.
Michael
| | | | | I must be in the total moron category... | Jul 11, 2014 |
Dominique Pivard wrote:
What logical explanations could there be to this state of affairs? You need a Mensa-class IQ in order to be able to grasp the immense superiority of CafeTran? 99% of translators are total morons who are wasting their money in other inferior and overpriced tools?
... as I've never managed to get going at all with CafeTran. It reminds me of Heartsome and Swordfish. Never could get going with them either. Perhaps I'm not alone. That's the only logical explanation I can see. Trados, Wordfast, memoQ and DVX all seemed pretty intuitive to me and I was up and running within a few minutes without even looking at the manual. I've downloaded 4 or 5 versions of CafeTran, fiddled with it for half and hour, lost patience and given up each time.
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:29
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| That’s exactly how I felt, until I saw the light ;) | Jul 11, 2014 |
David Turner wrote: Dominique Pivard wrote:
What logical explanations could there be to this state of affairs? You need a Mensa-class IQ in order to be able to grasp the immense superiority of CafeTran? 99% of translators are total morons who are wasting their money in other inferior and overpriced tools? ... as I've never managed to get going at all with CafeTran. It reminds me of Heartsome and Swordfish. Never could get going with them either. Perhaps I'm not alone. That's the only logical explanation I can see. Trados, Wordfast, memoQ and DVX all seemed pretty intuitive to me and I was up and running within a few minutes without even looking at the manual. I've downloaded 4 or 5 versions of CafeTran, fiddled with it for half and hour, lost patience and given up each time.
Hi Dave,
That’s exactly how I felt; I kept downloading it, getting frustrated, and giving up. This also wasn't made any easier by the very limited trial version (which Igor is currently trying to remedy). However, at some point – no idea why – I all of a sudden ‘got it’, and now I really hate to have to use any other CAT tool. Everyone is different though.
There are so many reasons why I prefer it. To begin with, it’s just so amazingly fun to use, once you’ve figured out the basics. Igor keeps adding little touches that no other tool has, such as you just drag over a word or several words and CT selects the whole word or phrase (like in Word). Or, say you are adding a term to the glossary, and type its plural. You can then just select the singular (if it is contained in the plural form – e.g. the nl/en term pair ‘Favoriet(en)’ = ‘Bookmark(s)’ / ‘Favourite(s)’), and CT will send both to your glossary. Or, the new shortcut Igor added a few weeks ago that allows you to send just a selection to an online MT engine. Or, the fact that Ctrl+F calls up a ‘super concordance’ dialogue that allows you to search TMs, TBs, web searches, your project's source or target text, or external databases. And then there’s the fact that the UI is modular: you can make it look any way you want, which is great. You can make it transparent, use a background image and move things around to your heart’s content, etc.
Then there is the fact that there is a direct connection with the developer, which really makes using a tool more fun. We suggest things, or complain about something, and within days Igor has added it to the program, usually with his own twist. Etc. Etc. Etc.
OK, I'll get down off of my soap box now.
Michael
¬¬¬ http://cafetranhelp.com/changelog ¬¬¬
[Edited at 2014-07-11 23:47 GMT]
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| If you could make it look... | Jul 13, 2014 |
Michael Beijer wrote:
And then there’s the fact that the UI is modular: you can make it look any way you want, which is great. You can make it transparent, use a background image and move things around to your heart’s content, etc.
... and behave just like DVX3 (or memoQ), that would be a good starting point
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:29
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Nice try Dave … | Jul 13, 2014 |
but I’m afraid us CafeTranslators only move towards the light, not away from it.
Don’t worry though, one day you too will smell the coffee. We all do, eventually.
[Edited at 2014-07-13 22:48 GMT]
| | | | | Lay-out and philosophy | Jul 14, 2014 |
David Turner wrote:
If you could make it look...
... and behave just like DVX3 (or memoQ), that would be a good starting point
When I finally got the main Dutch dictionary for the Mac, I decided to dump Windows for good. I had been using DV3 (started with DV2, actually, so not DVX2 and 3) for almost 14 years, so no wonder I wanted something similar. People don't like change. Anyway, I started with OmegaT because it had quite a reputation, and it's free. I didn't look like DV3, and I'm afraid that was one of the reasons I gave up, too soon maybe. I then had a look at the Wiki entry on CAT tools which was still rather complete at the time, and the first one I decided to try - in alphabetical order - was CafeTran. Not only did CT behave like I was used to, the lay-out turned out to be exceptionally customisable. And as far as the "features" are concerned, CT was far ahead of the pack, including DV, I must say.
... as I've never managed to get going at all with CafeTran.
I don't think you're a moron at all. In fact, knowing you from dejavu-l, I'm convinced you're high in the top ten of know-it-all CAT tool users. What's more, on this subject I tend to agree with you: CT has a very steep learning curve, to the point I started a blog on my struggles learning it. Not to "teach" others.
I still think CT isn't more difficult to learn than other tools, but the lack of a manual and a consistent philosophy, doesn't make it any easier. You're on your own. The help group is quite active, but you'll still have to find your path through dozens of settings to arrive at a solution that works for you. And after 4 years, I'm still struggling. Unlike Michael and 2nl, I should add before they chime in.
Cheers,
Hans
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