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ysun 
United States
Local time: 21:18
English to Chinese
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| Are you trying to initiate another round of political debate? | Apr 11, 2008 |
When you say “We don't need such a sad Olympics like that in Taipei”, are you representing the people in Taipei or Taiwan? If so, in what position? Olympics itself is not sad. What is sad is your own feeling.
Please don’t try to initiate any political debates again! Why do you always like to initiate political debates on the Chinese forum, such as Taiwan independence, Taiwan presidential election, human rights in China and the riot in Tibet? If you are a politician, Pleas... See more When you say “We don't need such a sad Olympics like that in Taipei”, are you representing the people in Taipei or Taiwan? If so, in what position? Olympics itself is not sad. What is sad is your own feeling.
Please don’t try to initiate any political debates again! Why do you always like to initiate political debates on the Chinese forum, such as Taiwan independence, Taiwan presidential election, human rights in China and the riot in Tibet? If you are a politician, Please go to somewhere else. This is a site for translators.
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
We don't need such a sad Olympics like that in Taipei. If we were to have such one, I would be the first to oppose. Nationalism doesn't do any good to Chinese Unity. Power doesn't mean everything, if you cannot convince others with good intentions and reasons. People are no animals that you can break. They come together with peace in their hearts to live together in peace.
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| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 21:18
English to Chinese
+ ...
Wenjer,
You provided a link which leads to Henry’s explanation of Terry's removal as moderator. What kind of agenda do you have in mind? It is very clear, at least to me!
You mentioned that “Angus Wu wrote somewhere in this forum, "欲加之罪何患无辞 (You find always rhetorics to accuse someone.)". As I understand, all the peers who regularly come to this Chinese forum can understand these Chinese words very well. Why did you bother to translate these w... See more Wenjer,
You provided a link which leads to Henry’s explanation of Terry's removal as moderator. What kind of agenda do you have in mind? It is very clear, at least to me!
You mentioned that “Angus Wu wrote somewhere in this forum, "欲加之罪何患无辞 (You find always rhetorics to accuse someone.)". As I understand, all the peers who regularly come to this Chinese forum can understand these Chinese words very well. Why did you bother to translate these words into English? Who are your intended readers? It’s also very clear to me!
Wenjer Leuschel wrote: Kevin Yang, Do you remember this case http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/23976-�����ʼ��Ƿ��������⣿.html?start=4 ? Note the second and the third points:
(2) Do you agree that all members should be treated with respect...
(3) Do you understand that moderators can not create their own policies?
As Angus Wu wrote somewhere in this forum, "欲加之罪何患无辞 (You find always rhetorics to accuse someone.)" happens only when there is a power unbalance. You have the power to hide away whatever I write to defend myself and you believe people don't see it, just like the Tibetans cannot make them heard because of media locking. Now, you accuse me of posting too many messages. My question on this would be: Are my messages political? Most postings of mine are about how to or how not to become a translator. These messages are widely appreciated. Maybe that is why some people have been attacking me and you let them do it just like letting this thread standing here for attacking people who defend human rights? It is time that you cut off with your own agenda/policies! - Wenjer
[Edited at 2008-04-11 04:37] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 10:18
English to Chinese
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| Thank you, Steve. | Apr 11, 2008 |
Steve,
Thank you for your balanced opinion of my explanation. Yes, I started to see things in a different light when I realized how emotions affect people's doing. And that is why I dare only talk to you to bring an end to the discussion of the issue. No, we are not going to talk about it further.
However, let me assure you, the opinions I've ever uttered in this forum, no matter upon which topic, are always unmistakably straight-forward. I am a non-violent man, but I a... See more Steve,
Thank you for your balanced opinion of my explanation. Yes, I started to see things in a different light when I realized how emotions affect people's doing. And that is why I dare only talk to you to bring an end to the discussion of the issue. No, we are not going to talk about it further.
However, let me assure you, the opinions I've ever uttered in this forum, no matter upon which topic, are always unmistakably straight-forward. I am a non-violent man, but I am not a coward who hide behind the crowd to lynch others. If I have a different opinion or a different view, I just speak up and scarcely anyone could shut me up. And you are one of those ones with whom I can reasonably talk about matters. I am happy that there are people like you. Thank you.
The reason why I write more in English recently is because it is easier to make my opinions clearer in this language (or in German which is, though, not one of the designated languages in this forum). I am glad that everyone understands English in this forum and agreed to have English as a designed language, so that our minds can be exchanged without language barriers.
There is only one thing in the issue that I would like to make clear is that, when I say "We don't need such a sad Olympics like that in Taipei," I mean, from my humanistic stand, I would not like to see an Olympics, which is supposed to be happily held, being held in such sad circumstances. In saying so, I am not representing anyone else in Taiwan. If necessary, people in Taiwan will speak up in their own words. But as you see, most Taiwanese would not come to this community except the ones I've brought in during these years of my participation and the only other active one, who is not a translator and whom I brought to the community, has definitely different view and opinions as I do, which I respect, keep a distance from and usually give no comments to, since I do not like emotion loaded word fights which lead to nowhere.
I appreciate your kindness to assure me of not telling me to shut up. However, I agree with you in suggesting to put aside such sensitive/controversial issues. Actually, that was why I wrote the last posting to have a dialog with you or any other reasonable ones, upon whose request I would respond. Else, I'd just keep my mouth shut. As you know, I would never go to the Kremlin to curse the White House. If I have any complaint against the White House, I just go over there and complain.
As you see, I don't argue further. I do not have any agenda, except making my stand and view clear to those ones who are not content with my participation. They are now clear and everyone who is not satisfied with them can pick on them. But I won't go further in discussion or argument, because I see the reason why I have to put them aside. And I wish from my whole heart a successful 2008 Olympics, including a well kept order during the games.
wherestip wrote: Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Sure, I understand that everyone has fear and some other emotions. And I probably didn't speak out directly and clearly, so that some people felt offended and started to attack me. Let's put the issue aside.
Wenjer, You're welcome. I was just trying to help, and I'm glad you're starting to see things in a different light. I think you are right about part of the problem. IMO, communication among peers needs to be open, sincere, and direct, even when opinions are at odds. People usually don't mind different opinions, but when exchanges resort to insinuation or double talk, that's when ill feelings and resentment could easily occur. I'm definitely not telling you or anyone else to shut up. But I think it would be good to put these sensitive issues aside. Instead of arguing for argument's sake or engaging in one-upsmanship, let's be more constructive and positive in our discussions.  ▲ Collapse
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 22:18
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
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| 別自責﹐這裡沒有你不熱鬧 | Apr 11, 2008 |
Wenjer Leuschel wrote: Steve, Thank you for your balanced opinion of my explanation. Yes, I started to see things in a different light when I realized how emotions affect people's doing. And that is why I dare only talk to you to bring an end to the discussion of the issue. No, we are not going to talk about it further. However, let me assure you, the opinions I've ever uttered in this forum, no matter upon which topic, are always unmistakably straight-forward. I am a non-violent man, but I am not a coward who hide behind the crowd to lynch others. If I have a different opinion or a different view, I just speak up and scarcely anyone could shut me up. And you are one of those ones with whom I can reasonably talk about matters. I am happy that there are people like you. Thank you. The reason why I write more in English recently is because it is easier to make my opinions clearer in this language (or in German which is, though, not one of the designated languages in this forum). I am glad that everyone understands English in this forum and agreed to have English as a designed language, so that our minds can be exchanged without language barriers. There is only one thing in the issue that I would like to make clear is that, when I say "We don't need such a sad Olympics like that in Taipei," I mean, from my humanistic stand, I would not like to see an Olympics, which is supposed to be happily held, being held in such sad circumstances. In saying so, I am not representing anyone else in Taiwan. If necessary, people in Taiwan will speak up in their own words. But as you see, most Taiwanese would not come to this community except the ones I've brought in during these years of my participation and the only other active one, who is not a translator and whom I brought to the community, has definitely different view and opinions as I do, which I respect, keep a distance from and usually give no comments to, since I do not like emotion loaded word fights which lead to nowhere. I appreciate your kindness to assure me of not telling me to shut up. However, I agree with you in suggesting to put aside such sensitive/controversial issues. Actually, that was why I wrote the last posting to have a dialog with you or any other reasonable ones, upon whose request I would respond. Else, I'd just keep my mouth shut. As you know, I would never go to the Kremlin to curse the White House. If I have any complaint against the White House, I just go over there and complain. As you see, I don't argue further. I do not have any agenda, except making my stand and view clear to those ones who are not content with my participation. They are now clear and everyone who is not satisfied with them can pick on them. But I won't go further in discussion or argument, because I see the reason why I have to put them aside. And I wish from my whole heart a successful 2008 Olympics, including a well kept order during the games. wherestip wrote: Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Sure, I understand that everyone has fear and some other emotions. And I probably didn't speak out directly and clearly, so that some people felt offended and started to attack me. Let's put the issue aside.
Wenjer, You're welcome. I was just trying to help, and I'm glad you're starting to see things in a different light. I think you are right about part of the problem. IMO, communication among peers needs to be open, sincere, and direct, even when opinions are at odds. People usually don't mind different opinions, but when exchanges resort to insinuation or double talk, that's when ill feelings and resentment could easily occur. I'm definitely not telling you or anyone else to shut up. But I think it would be good to put these sensitive issues aside. Instead of arguing for argument's sake or engaging in one-upsmanship, let's be more constructive and positive in our discussions.
沒有人願意這裡死水一潭。不波瀾壯闊也得有點微瀾吧。
所以﹐老九不能走啊﹗
BTW﹐ 你夸STEVE了﹐這不是讓我嫉妒嗎﹖真是的。
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ysun
United States
Local time: 21:18
English to Chinese
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| 这场政治把戏确实是该收场了 | Apr 11, 2008 |
有的人平时连篇累牍的用中文写帖子，其字数不亚于我每天的翻译工作量，说不定还要多得多。可是最近突然全部改用英文写，演戏给谁看哪？
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 10:18
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Don't worry, Xiaoyuan. | Apr 11, 2008 |
I stay for funs with you. You are the most funny guy among the peers that make me happy. I thank you for your kindness of inviting me to join the fun topics you used to initiate. Don't worry, I stay with those topics and no politics.
BTW, for some funs, you can also write in English. I know you are good at it.
jyuan_us wrote:
別自責﹐這裡沒有你不熱鬧
沒有人願意這裡死水一潭。不波瀾壯闊也得有點微瀾吧。
所以﹐老九不能走啊﹗
BTW﹐ 你夸STEVE了﹐這不是讓我嫉妒嗎﹖真是的。
| | | | redred
China
Local time: 10:18
English to Chinese
+ ...
| your are an exception | Apr 11, 2008 |
traiston wrote:
天要下雨，娘要嫁人，由他们去吧。
我虽然也不太支持奥运，我觉得这些钱不如给全体中国农民上几个社会保险，免除学生的各种费用。但是既然已经要办了，而且政府也在努力，为什么就不能宽容点。敬仰了半天的西方文明，也不过如此。
[Edited at 2008-04-10 02:55]
北京奥运对中国很有利，期盼中……
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 10:18
English to Chinese
+ ...
Lesley, thank you for the historical information.
I admire your country's respect for women. Let me find out how the development of suffrage in Europe. Then, I might open another thread to talk about it. This thread is after all not suitable for discussions of suffrage. This is for "Off-Topic:" or "2008 Olympic Games in Beijing," nothing to do with women's rights or suffrage. When we talk about these things in this th... See more Lesley, thank you for the historical information.
I admire your country's respect for women. Let me find out how the development of suffrage in Europe. Then, I might open another thread to talk about it. This thread is after all not suitable for discussions of suffrage. This is for "Off-Topic:" or "2008 Olympic Games in Beijing," nothing to do with women's rights or suffrage. When we talk about these things in this thread, it may distract the attention or confuse some people. Let's be considerate.
lai an wrote: 'The vote' NZ: Universal male suffrage 1881; Women's suffrage 1893 Libin PhD wrote: Black women in the US did not have the right to vote until 1963. Bin Tiede wrote: wherestip wrote:
Let's see how peaceful demonstrations are done - if any at all - in a nation with a tradition for democracy spanning more than 200 years.
Only for the white males!
[Edited at 2008-04-11 06:27] ▲ Collapse
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Angus Woo
Local time: 10:18
Chinese to English
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Yueyin Sun wrote:
You mentioned that “Angus Wu wrote somewhere in this forum, "欲加之罪何患无辞 (You find always rhetorics to accuse someone.)".
Wow, I didn't know that. Actually what I said was that it won't happen if everybody is receiving fair treatment.
Frankly, I am a bit tired of all these. The fact right before our eyes is that Kevin is embarrassingly caught between hard rocks right now.
What happened lately in Tibet and around the Olympic game indeed have stirred up worldwide responses. And obviously many members here also feel somewhat attached to these incidences. Of course, this is the very first time China ever became the hosting country of an Olympic game, no wonder it's creating a deep sensation among the Chinese community. However, like it or not, there is a site rule explicitly saying "no political discussion".
Olympic games have nothing to do with politics? Jesus, is there anyone who would genuinely believe in that nonsense? The Olympic game has never been just a sport event and never will be.
Let's first put other things aside and focus just on what happened here recently. I personally don't know how to play this game both hands, for one side the site rule says "no", but the member's side says "yes", what do you expect a moderator could do under such circumstances?
I do think Kevin sometimes is carried away by his personal feelings, but aren't we all the same? Nonetheless, in this incident, I don't think he has done anything wrong.
Personally I do believe that as a Chinese national, there is nothing wrong if you think that you are bound to feel somewhat attached to what's been happening lately. But if Kevin thinks that it's a moderator's duty to stop any political discussion, well, let's be fair, the man has a job to do.
Do only as thee shall be done by.
[Edited at 2008-04-11 06:57]
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 10:18
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Oh yes, you did. | Apr 11, 2008 |
Angus,
You did when posting a response upon my comments. I have all the links at mine and, even when the specific posting is hidden, I can find out the posting for you, if you need it.
Be sure that I am also tired of all these. So, let's follow Steve's suggestion and put it aside without further comments.
Angus Woo wrote: Yueyin Sun wrote:
You mentioned that “Angus Wu wrote somewhere in this forum, "欲加之罪何患无辞 (You find always rhetorics to accuse someone.)". Wow, I didn't know that. Actually what I said was that it won't happen if everybody is receiving fair treatment.
| | | | isahuang
Local time: 22:18
English to Chinese
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| 大家 is too much into 政治 | Apr 11, 2008 |
Angus Woo wrote:
...
Olympic games have nothing to do with politics? Jesus, is there anyone who would genuinely believe in that nonsense? The Olympic game has never been just a sport event and never will be.
奧運會不可能跟政治斷絕關係，不過我看，更多的人及商傢看到的是商機。大部分奧運會申請囯恐怕看到的更多的是商機，而不是要推進什麽political ideology。真想用奧運會來advance political view的，也就那麽一小部分人。而且他們也就是瞎鬧。根本不可能有任何積極成果。
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redred wrote: traiston wrote:
天要下雨，娘要嫁人，由他们去吧。
我虽然也不太支持奥运，我觉得这些钱不如给全体中国农民上几个社会保险，免除学生的各种费用。但是既然已经要办了，而且政府也在努力，为什么就不能宽容点。敬仰了半天的西方文明，也不过如此。
[Edited at 2008-04-10 02:55] 北京奥运对中国很有利，期盼中……
愣了
[Edited at 2008-04-11 18:31]
[Edited at 2008-04-11 19:03]
[Edited at 2008-04-11 21:25]
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Jason Ma
China
Local time: 10:18
English to Chinese
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| The torch was treated with respect, in BUENOS AIRES, Argentina | Apr 12, 2008 |
BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) -- Runners surrounded by rows of security carried the Olympic flame past thousands of jubilant Argentines on Friday in the most trouble-free torch relay in nearly a week.
People showered the parade route with confetti as banks, government offices and businesses took an impromptu half-day holiday for the only Latin American stop on the flame's five-continent journey from Ancient Olympia to the Beijing Games. They are scheduled for August 8 through 24.
... See more BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) -- Runners surrounded by rows of security carried the Olympic flame past thousands of jubilant Argentines on Friday in the most trouble-free torch relay in nearly a week.
People showered the parade route with confetti as banks, government offices and businesses took an impromptu half-day holiday for the only Latin American stop on the flame's five-continent journey from Ancient Olympia to the Beijing Games. They are scheduled for August 8 through 24.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/04/11/argentina.torch.ap/index.html?iref=topnews
区别怎这么大呢？ ▲ Collapse
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 10:18
English to Chinese
+ ...
对拉美情况持续观察的人，大概会明白阿根廷目前的重大社会问题造。那个国家的人民不太可能关心国际事务，他们需要处理的问题已经够复杂了。不过，那是阿根廷的内政问题，别人只能观察，不应该评论。奥运圣火在阿国平安顺利，只有少量的抗议旗帜出现，那是值得恭贺的。
Jason Ma wrote:
区别怎这么大呢？
| | | | chance (X)
French to Chinese
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| 巴黎奥运火炬传递的另一段录像报导 | Apr 12, 2008 |
法公共电视二台为这次报导派出了七个摄影组，其中有对中国学生、人权组织、藏民等事前准备工作以及传递当天的追踪报导。
其中有对中方记者工作的报导，中方记者在一辆中型无蓬车上，当远处路边有人举藏旗或有抗议呼声时，他们就不拍摄。跟踪报导的法方记者轻轻问了一句：你们不拍吗？这时其中一位中国记者就表现出很反感的样子，对他的一个同事说(大�... See more 法公共电视二台为这次报导派出了七个摄影组，其中有对中国学生、人权组织、藏民等事前准备工作以及传递当天的追踪报导。
其中有对中方记者工作的报导，中方记者在一辆中型无蓬车上，当远处路边有人举藏旗或有抗议呼声时，他们就不拍摄。跟踪报导的法方记者轻轻问了一句：你们不拍吗？这时其中一位中国记者就表现出很反感的样子，对他的一个同事说(大意)：我看他是想捣乱。那位中国同事看了看，没看到法方记者有什么恶意表现，想了想就没说什么。于是第一位中国记者就过来用手推挡镜头，法方记者马上解释：我们是法国公共电视台的。中国记者仍使劲推，最后法方记者只好说：你们又不是警察，没权力赶我们走。那位中国记者于是拿起话机说(大意)：我们这里有危险份子，让警察把他们赶走。两分钟后来了一位法国警察，好声好气的劝法方记者走开，法方记者说：这是我的工作，为什么要走开？法国警察说：走吧走吧，还是走吧。话外音补充说明：后来警察承认，不是他们掌握，全部是中方指挥。这段是我前天在电视上看到的，网上暂没找到录像，根据记忆写下，可能会有个别小出入，但整个过程大意没问题。他們采访的中国学生中，有一位拼命宣传中国人民和平友好，但从这段报导看，很难令法国公众相信那会是真的。
在维持秩序过程中，还有个别法国警察强行抢下藏旗，个别法国警察将执行任务的法国记者粗暴推开，这些都在法国引起公众的不解和不满，质问政府，内务部长说正在调查中。我看法国政府只是想对中国表示友好罢了。 ▲ Collapse
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