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Off topic: 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing
Thread poster: Renquan Yang
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
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派的 Apr 10, 2008

Yueyin Sun wrote:

“According to my sources”



Careful, chance might pipe up again

I'm just kidding.



[Edited at 2008-04-10 19:50]


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
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Sit back in peace. Apr 10, 2008

No chance to argue in this forum. My questions would be: How many leaders of those countries and regions will be at the opening ceremony? And how many of the athletes will have some funny buttons on? Or, how many unprecedented phenomena will be observed? I hope that it won't be too sad for the viewers. Fortunately, most Chinese people don't read French, German, Spanish or other languages, even English.

wherestip wrote:

Be careful, chance might pipe up again



 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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My simple question would be: Apr 10, 2008

When will the Olympic Games be held in Taipei? I am looking forward to it!

 
pkchan
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優越與偏見 Apr 10, 2008

2008/04/09 本文作者長平為媒體工作者,曾任《南方週末》新聞部主任,《外灘畫報》副總編輯,2003-2004年美國加州伯克利大學訪問學者,現為《南都週刊》副總編輯,華東政法大學兼職教授。他這篇文章引起極大關注,但也惹來特定人士對其進行有組織的攻擊。現特轉載文章如下:...但是我也看到,有很多中國人借此機會進行了更廣泛的討論和更深入的思考。他們發現,西方人... See more
2008/04/09 本文作者長平為媒體工作者,曾任《南方週末》新聞部主任,《外灘畫報》副總編輯,2003-2004年美國加州伯克利大學訪問學者,現為《南都週刊》副總編輯,華東政法大學兼職教授。他這篇文章引起極大關注,但也惹來特定人士對其進行有組織的攻擊。現特轉載文章如下:...但是我也看到,有很多中國人借此機會進行了更廣泛的討論和更深入的思考。他們發現,西方人對中國的偏見,源自一種居高臨下的文化優越感。那麼應該警惕的是,漢人在面對少數民族時,有沒有這樣一種由文化優越感而導致的偏見呢?西方人對中國的歪曲報道,源自不願意傾聽和瞭解,沉迷於薩義德說的那種東方主義想像,那麼我們對少數民族又如何呢?如果我們以民族主義為武器來反抗西方,那麼怎樣說服少數民族放棄民族主義,加入到主流的國家建設中來呢?... http://www.atchinese.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48493&Itemid=64Collapse


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
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Let's Be Constructive Apr 10, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

No chance to argue in this forum. My questions would be ...



Wenjer,

It is obvious to me that relationships here have strained all due to unyielding personal beliefs on mostly sensitive issues.

I think you've made quite clear of your perspective on the Tibet issue and your belief in the reverence for life. I think most of us in this forum respect that. But I sincerely doubt it is helpful to play a cat and mouse game, try to hint with a few words here and there, yet in essence just to reiterate the same position over and over again. Do you think what I'm saying makes any sense?



[Edited at 2008-04-11 12:59]


 
chica nueva
chica nueva
Local time: 04:09
Chinese to English
妙! Apr 10, 2008

traiston wrote:

天要下雨,娘要嫁人,由他们去吧。

我虽然也不太支持奥运,我觉得这些钱不如给全体中国农民上几个社会保险,免除学生的各种费用。但是既然已经要办了,而且政府也在努力,为什么就不能宽容点。敬仰了半天的西方文明,也不过如此。

[Edited at 2008-04-10 02:55]


妙!

[Edited at 2008-04-10 20:52]

[Edited at 2008-04-10 21:57]


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 23:09
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Please do not put me wrong. Apr 10, 2008

I am a non-violent person, but I am of the opinion that people shall be treated fair.

Why can't we discuss peacefully and openly? If China really wishes a harmoneous society under the leadership of the CCP, why can't those guys be reasonable and talk to the weaker ethnic groups?

We don't need such a sad Olympics like that in Taipei. If we were to have such one, I would be the first to oppose. Nationalism doesn't do any good to Chinese Unity. Power doesn't mean everythin
... See more
I am a non-violent person, but I am of the opinion that people shall be treated fair.

Why can't we discuss peacefully and openly? If China really wishes a harmoneous society under the leadership of the CCP, why can't those guys be reasonable and talk to the weaker ethnic groups?

We don't need such a sad Olympics like that in Taipei. If we were to have such one, I would be the first to oppose. Nationalism doesn't do any good to Chinese Unity. Power doesn't mean everything, if you cannot convince others with good intentions and reasons. People are no animals that you can break. They come together with peace in their hearts to live together in peace. That is the spirit of Olympics, as it stands in the Charter of Olympics: 奥运会的目的是以体育锻炼为手段达到人类和谐发展,提倡建立一个和平并且尊重人的尊严的社会。任何以种族、宗教、政治、性别或其他因素为由,对个人或国家的歧视均不容于奥林匹克运动。That is why IOC president says what in the following link stands: http://www.olympic.org/uk/news/olympic_news/full_story_uk.asp?id=2535

Believe me, I wish a harmoneous Olympics in Beijing from my heart. I wish Chinese people will understand that the Western world is not against them. China has internal disharmony and whatever causes the disharmony shall be figured out in the right light and resolved with reasonable measures in order to install a long term harmony. That is what I was trying to say, but I was disturbed by personal attacks and suppression of expression.

Sure, I understand that everyone has fear and some other emotions. And I probably didn't speak out directly and clearly, so that some people felt offended and started to attack me. Let's put the issue aside. I don't mind that people keep their nationalistic views. I was just hoping to have an opportunity of exchanging minds, so that it would be possible to figure out why things run this way: The Torch has to be protected in so many countries like a visiting leader of a nation. I just wonder why people don't look for the reason why. No, neither the Western world nor I am against Chinese people. No, it isn't the case at all. The point is minorities shall be respected as well. They are just like you and me. Don't demonize them.

If you, Steve, are asking me to shut up by telling me "Let's be constructive," it's all right. These above words are my last ones on this issue and I won't bother you in this off-topic chat. I will stay away from this topic to be constructive.

Thank you, Steve, for the reminding.

wherestip wrote:

Wenjer,

It is obvious to me that relationships here have been strained all due to unyielding personal beliefs on mostly sensitive issues.

I think you've made quite clear of your perspective on the Tibet issue and your belief in the reverence for life. I think most of us respect that. But I sincerely doubt it is helpful to play a cat and mouse game, try to get a few words in here and there, yet in essence just to reiterate the same position repeatedly. Do you think what I said makes any sense?
Collapse


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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Local time: 10:09
English to Chinese
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It's funny Apr 10, 2008

wherestip,

I know it is much more convenient for you to type in English than in Chinese. Most of the time, you use English on this non-English forum. It’s fine with me. However, someone suddenly changed his habit and started using English on this forum about one week ago. Of course, he is free to use whatever language as he likes. However, does it mean to provide convenience for certain non-Chinese readers to read, or does it mean to invite some non-Chinese speakers to join the d
... See more
wherestip,

I know it is much more convenient for you to type in English than in Chinese. Most of the time, you use English on this non-English forum. It’s fine with me. However, someone suddenly changed his habit and started using English on this forum about one week ago. Of course, he is free to use whatever language as he likes. However, does it mean to provide convenience for certain non-Chinese readers to read, or does it mean to invite some non-Chinese speakers to join the discussion? The phenomenon is quite similar to what occurred last fall. Probably, it’s just a coincidence.

[Edited at 2008-04-11 09:31]
Collapse


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
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Local time: 10:09
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Harmony Apr 10, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Sure, I understand that everyone has fear and some other emotions. And I probably didn't speak out directly and clearly, so that some people felt offended and started to attack me. Let's put the issue aside.



Wenjer,

You're welcome. I was just trying to help, and I'm glad you're starting to see things in a different light.

I think you are right about part of the problem. IMO, communication among peers needs to be open, sincere, and direct, even when opinions are at odds. People usually don't mind different opinions, but when exchanges resort to insinuation or double talk, that's when ill feelings and resentment could easily occur.

I'm definitely not telling you or anyone else to shut up. But I think it would be good to put these sensitive issues aside. Instead of arguing for argument's sake or engaging in one-upsmanship, let's be more constructive and positive in our discussions.


 
CHEN-Ling
CHEN-Ling  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:09
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是吗 Apr 11, 2008

pkchan wrote:
期望中國的領導人有這樣的“心胸”。
Mincho Young wrote:
随着中国国力的增强,在全球扮演的角色更重要,中国政府和中国人民面对的来自国内外的反对人士会更多。如果我们学会用正常的心态来面对抗议,用合法的手段适时处理,用“兼听则明”的心胸来思考反对意见,这将是北京奥运会留给我们的财富。


世界上没有任何一个国家的领导人是十全十美。我们已经够满意的啦!


 
CHEN-Ling
CHEN-Ling  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:09
Chinese to English
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funny Apr 11, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

The boss has already set the tone. But if you are really interested, go over the following links.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/us/10torch.html
Olympic Torch Route Changed in San Francisco
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3256883,00.html
Cat and Mouse in San Francisco
http://www.rfi.fr/actufr/articles/100/article_64896.asp
Bush under Pressure
You are lucky to be in the USA and you can read them, so that you won't be biased.
pkchan wrote:
期望中國的領導人有這樣的“心胸”。
Mincho Young wrote:
随着中国国力的增强,在全球扮演的角色更重要,中国政府和中国人民面对的来自国内外的反对人士会更多。如果我们学会用正常的心态来面对抗议,用合法的手段适时处理,用“兼听则明”的心胸来思考反对意见,这将是北京奥运会留给我们的财富。



看看谁在打自己耳光。
http://news.sohu.com/20080410/n256218742.shtml


 
isahuang
isahuang
Local time: 11:09
English to Chinese
+ ...
An article on New York Times Apr 11, 2008

Mincho Young wrote:

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

The boss has already set the tone. But if you are really interested, go over the following links.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/us/10torch.html
Olympic Torch Route Changed in San Francisco
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3256883,00.html
Cat and Mouse in San Francisco
http://www.rfi.fr/actufr/articles/100/article_64896.asp
Bush under Pressure
You are lucky to be in the USA and you can read them, so that you won't be biased.
pkchan wrote:
期望中國的領導人有這樣的“心胸”。
Mincho Young wrote:
随着中国国力的增强,在全球扮演的角色更重要,中国政府和中国人民面对的来自国内外的反对人士会更多。如果我们学会用正常的心态来面对抗议,用合法的手段适时处理,用“兼听则明”的心胸来思考反对意见,这将是北京奥运会留给我们的财富。



看看谁在打自己耳光。
http://news.sohu.com/20080410/n256218742.shtml


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/11/world/asia/11china.html?hp

This article provides a very balanced view of what has happened so far. Don't get edgy about the title of the article. the article is mainly expressing the IOC members view that politics should have no place in Olympics. The IOC offered rare criticism of China yet they also have very harsh words for the protesters.

the following is from the article

The committee members who gathered at a hotel in central Beijing offered harsh words for demonstrators who used the relay to publicize issues ranging from Tibetan religious freedom to environmental concerns. Gunilla Lindberg, a vice president of the committee, likened some of the more vociferous protesters to terrorists and said they had emboldened committee members to keep the relay going.

“We will never give into violence,” Ms. Lindberg said. “These are not the friendly demonstrators for a free Tibet, but professional demonstrators, the ones who show up at G-8 conferences to be seen and fight.”


 
chica nueva
chica nueva
Local time: 04:09
Chinese to English
'The vote' NZ: Universal male suffrage 1881; Women's suffrage 1893 Apr 11, 2008

Libin PhD wrote:

Black women in the US did not have the right to vote until 1963.

Bin Tiede wrote:

wherestip wrote:
Let's see how peaceful demonstrations are done - if any at all - in a nation with a tradition for democracy spanning more than 200 years.


Only for the white males!


随笔:新西兰政坛女人多- [ Translate this page ]新西兰妇女参政一直走在世界前列。1893年,立国不久的这个南太岛国就在法律上准许妇女投票,成为世界上第一个使妇女拥有选举权的国度。此后百多年,新西兰政坛频频 ...
news.xinhuanet.com/world/2006-03/08/content_4274860.htm - 37k - Cached - Similar pages

Universal Suffrage 1873-1893 - New Zealand Politics Timeline ...More information about the history of Chinese in New Zealand. 1881. First general election held under universal male suffrage. 'Country quota' introduced ...
library.christchurch.org.nz/Reference/NZPoliticsTimeline/1873-1893/ - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

新西兰大事记--新西兰旅游商务网新闻- [ Translate this page ]1867年 毛利人有了选举权。 1868年 毛利人首领蒂托考瓦鲁和蒂库蒂发动突袭,殖民地陷入危机。 1869年 蒂库蒂在纳塔帕败北。 1870年 新西兰举行第一场英式橄榄球赛。 ...
www.newzealandtb.com/html/20080131091330.htm - 14k - Cached - Similar pages

History of the Vote : The Right to VoteUniversal suffrage changed New Zealand politics forever. Since the 1850s most members of Parliament had come from the wealthy colonial elite, but after 1879 ...
www.elections.org.nz/study/history/right-to-vote.html - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

普选权_百度百科- [ Translate this page ]世界各地普选权 某些国家或州认为是第一个普选权地方。美国、新西兰、澳洲南澳大利亚州、芬兰、法国和挪威。某些国家或州不同时期授予和取消公民普选权。 ...
baike.baidu.com/view/930387.htm - 20k - Cached - Similar pages

[Edited at 2008-04-11 01:23]


 
QUOI
QUOI  Identity Verified

Chinese to English
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奥运就是政治 Apr 11, 2008

柏林、莫斯科、慕尼黑、墨尔本...奥运脱离政治?现任国际奥委会主席当选的故事就是最好的例子之一。从争夺主办权的那一刻开始,钱权交易、奥运政治、政治奥运无处不在。每个国家和每个团体都在利用这个平台。

对政治不感兴趣的是那些热门项目的精英运动员。他们感兴趣的是金牌以及之后带来的滚滚财源。

[Edited at 2008-04-11 02:03]


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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你說話總是那么貼切 Apr 11, 2008

別讓我崇拜你啊。

abinitio wrote:

柏林、莫斯科、慕尼黑、墨尔本...奥运脱离政治?现任国际奥委会主席当选的故事就是最好的例子之一。从争夺主办权的那一刻开始,钱权交易、奥运政治、政治奥运无处不在。每个国家和每个团体都在利用这个平台。

对政治不感兴趣的是那些热门项目的精英运动员。他们感兴趣的是金牌以及之后带来的滚滚财源。

[Edited at 2008-04-11 02:03]




BY THE WAY﹐ REDRED﹐thank you for your support before. I'm straight though. Just kiding.

[Edited at 2008-04-11 02:34]


 
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2008 Olympic Games in Beijing






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