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翻译点滴 (Challenges in Interpretation)
Thread poster: David Shen
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Thank you! But Look Around First Dec 28, 2020

《先看看再说》

初来咋到,先别乱叫!这里哪些是大佬,你还不知道。

大师者,时代造。生不逢时早注定:我这一代,大师出不了。

八零后的有可能。往回看至抗战前,三十年代的人已老。

也许有人不同意,怎么莫名其妙又被代表,但凡同龄人,都知道。

回到你上面这两行:第一句,句型好。第二句,待推敲。

两句选词都不错,问题在语法,自己琢磨;或者看谁愿意帮你雕。

D.S.2020.1227.a


 
敬请指教为盼 Dec 28, 2020

一、
小厮看英中字典是低级
技师翻双解词典属中级
高工研英英辞典为高级
大师琢汉语辞书乃超级

二、
“第一句,句型好。”谢谢!获得鼓舞。
“第二句,待推敲。”估计意思是有错。瞎猜,是否是这个turn字用错?

三、
希望能不吝赐教,进一步指点江山,使小厮获醍醐灌顶之益而不虚此行。不知是否是一种奢望?

四、
再谢。


David Shen wrote:

《先看看再说》

初来咋到,先别乱叫!这里哪些是大佬,你还不知道。

大师者,时代造。生不逢时早注定:我这一代,大师出不了。

八零后的有可能。往回看至抗战前,三十年代的人已老。

也许有人不同意,怎么莫名其妙又被代表,但凡同龄人,都知道。

回到你上面这两行:第一句,句型好。第二句,待推敲。

两句选词都不错,问题在语法,自己琢磨;或者看谁愿意帮你雕。

D.S.2020.1227.a


 
Long time no see Jan 15, 2021

乔志高(George Kao)早年著有《言犹在耳》,当为世界图书在2001出版,其中有:

Long time no see现已成为顶呱呱的美语,比起文绉绉的I haven’t seen you for a long time要高明得多。

本贴不探讨long time no see是否一定要对应I haven't seen you for a long time。但后来又有新著:A New Dictionary of Idiomatic American English – George Kao (高克毅 or 乔志�
... See more
乔志高(George Kao)早年著有《言犹在耳》,当为世界图书在2001出版,其中有:

Long time no see现已成为顶呱呱的美语,比起文绉绉的I haven’t seen you for a long time要高明得多。

本贴不探讨long time no see是否一定要对应I haven't seen you for a long time。但后来又有新著:A New Dictionary of Idiomatic American English – George Kao (高克毅 or 乔志高) and Irving K. Y. Kao (高克永),是北京大学2006版。其中再次谈到:

Page 344: Long time no see.好久没见。谁都知道这是句洋泾浜英语(pidgin English),是早年英美商人和传教士来华雇用的佣工说的英文。有趣的是这个至少也有一百多年历史的 Chinglish(中英文),不但经过时间考验,而且不时会在美语里出现,并不是[sic, supposed to be 时]引为笑谈。Long time no see.有中国四字成语的长处,简洁了当,比标准英语的I haven’t seen you for a long time.高明多多。...

可惜,两位高老先生著书立说有余,勤奋核对尚欠不足。查OED有:

Colloq. phr. (orig. U.S.) a joc. imitation of broken English, used as a greeting after prolonged separation

可见,此乃美国原产、而非进口货。


redred wrote:

jyuan_us wrote:

比如LONG TIME NO SEE 就是很好的例子. 據說來自牙買加或巴哈馬.
照此推理, PEOPLE MOUNT PEOPLE SEA, 早晚會成標準英語.

[Edited at 2007-02-23 05:46]


LONG TIME NO SEE,好久不见,好像不是来自南美,是Chinenglish作为外来语对英语词库尽其绵薄之力的贡献。

[Edited at 2007-02-23 06:24]
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Two Cents Jan 16, 2021

根据【】和《》知道,其中应该是标题。

Notes of a Translator估计当作某译家的笔记。“翻译点滴”,小的理解是翻译大家们的经验汇集。如果碰巧有理,或许可考虑:
Crumbs from Renderers
Gleaned from Renderers
Morsels/Trickle of Renderers' Experiences
...

查字典,in the wind意思是:likely to occur; in the offing Ex: Big changes are in the wind.再看in the offing,意思是:likely to
... See more
根据【】和《》知道,其中应该是标题。

Notes of a Translator估计当作某译家的笔记。“翻译点滴”,小的理解是翻译大家们的经验汇集。如果碰巧有理,或许可考虑:
Crumbs from Renderers
Gleaned from Renderers
Morsels/Trickle of Renderers' Experiences
...

查字典,in the wind意思是:likely to occur; in the offing Ex: Big changes are in the wind.再看in the offing,意思是:likely to happen or appear soon Ex: there are several initiatives in the offing.可见,好像与“答案还早呢!”还有一段距离。小的乱想,是否Answers Visible Afar off! fills the bill?当然,还应当有其它,甚至更好的选择。限于学识,暂且搁笔。

David Shen wrote:

【 翻译点滴】 NOTES OF A TRANSLATOR
《答案还早呢!》 The answer is still in the wind!

...

[Edited at 2018-02-28 19:58 GMT]
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QHE
QHE
United States
Local time: 20:28
English to Chinese
+ ...
FWIW Jan 18, 2021

Daaviid Woog wrote:

根据【】和《》知道,其中应该是标题。

Notes of a Translator估计当作某译家的笔记。“翻译点滴”,小的理解是翻译大家们的经验汇集。
...


论坛上大家(Everyone)相互尊重, 各抒己见; 但没有高低贵贱之分,也无需刻意为之。
在 “【翻译点滴】 NOTES OF A TRANSLATOR ”上发帖的是 ProZ 的用户, 平等交流学习而已。


Daaviid Woog wrote:
查字典,in the wind意思是:likely to occur; in the offing Ex: Big changes are in the wind.再看in the offing,意思是:likely to happen or appear soon Ex: there are several initiatives in the offing....可见,好像与“答案还早呢!”还有一段距离。小的乱想,是否Answers Visible Afar off! fills the bill?当然,还应当有其它,甚至更好的选择。限于学识,暂且搁笔。

David Shen wrote:

【 翻译点滴】 NOTES OF A TRANSLATOR
《答案还早呢!》 The answer is still in the wind!

[Edited at 2018-02-28 19:58 GMT]


“The answer is still in the wind!” 这句话的意思就是它最简单直白的意思, 其它的要视语境而定。
而且, “still in the wind”, " blowin' in the wind" 与 “in the wind” 是不同的。


 
In the wind = ? Jan 21, 2021

谢谢参与探讨。它事缠身,迟复为歉。

一是“答案还早呢!”与The answer is still in the wind!两者意思有差异,一是still in the wind和blowin’ in the wind与in the wind的含义是不同。If I am not all wet, they are two animals.

同样的食料,不同的添油加醋后,味道自然应该不同,如:
… remain/…/stay/… in the wind, ...
piss in the wind
twist in the wind
whistle in the wind
Candle in the Wind
a straw in the wind
three sheets in/to the wind
The people who used to be in Kenetech are still in the wind business.
We’re still in the wind shadow of the buildings and these hills.
是否可以这样理解,上述语句中的in the wind不作介词短语来理解?

个人理解,词组、短语是语言长期积累沉淀的结果,其含义通常是固定的,而非可随意解释、引申的。英美人是可以对英语某个字、词增加新意、改变原意、废弃不再用、…,但其他民族的人好像是没有这个权力的吧?在字典里in the wind只有一个意思,且各个字典的解释基本上一致,不存在异议。Still in the wind不是词组或短语。所以,still在这里起修饰,通常不改变被修饰字、词的基本含义,同不同意?特例当然有。但我们探讨的例子是特例吗?从哪里能看出它属特殊情况?换个母语是英语、受过良好教育的人,当他/她看到(still) in the wind时,第一时间想到的意思会偏离字典的定义?不太相信。最好有例证示人才更有说服力吧?各字典里举得最多的一个例子是:… change(s) is/are in the wind.下面是找到的still in the wind案例:

The attacks by Ascham and others on Italianate manners and wit were still in the wind, as were...
page 94, Lyric Wonder: Rhetoric and Wit in Renaissance English Poetry by James Biester, Cornell University 1997
Two women were dead and the killer was still in the wind.
Bonefire of the Vanities by Carolyn Haines 2012

有兴趣的过客可以继续寻觅。能看出加了still后,改变了原介词短语in the wind的基本定义了吗?甚至相反?若有,敬请告知为盼。先予谢过!

有看官可能会说,操英语的国家不也是有不少教育低下者吗?问题是,译家是不是应以受高等教育者、名作家为榜样?不向金句名言看齐?总不至于与下里巴语为伍吧?比上不比下,比好不比烂。文风另谈。

若还有客官说,老子就不把The answer is still in the wind!中的in the wind当作介词短语来看待,就一定不可以吗?当然可以,没违法。麻烦是,小的以为,如果张三认为在此语境下意思简单直白,“答案还早呢!”是一目了然。那是否会有李四也赞同,但却认为应该是“答案就在眼前了!”不就在风里,马上吹到了吗?若还有王五解作“答案还在风中,吹到哪里只有天知道”呢?…所以,不同的人是不是还可以有其它不同的一目了然的理解?故而《孟子》的《离娄章句上》:“不以规矩,不能成方圆。”还是有些道理的吧?

好了,废话到此,恳请达人批评,不吝赐教。
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翻译点滴 (Challenges in Interpretation)






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