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Starting up as a translator directly after University
Thread poster: Marc Fisher
Rachel Waddington
Rachel Waddington  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:51
Dutch to English
+ ...
What? Jun 22, 2020

Richard Purdom wrote:

Hey, don't forget that the people writing reams on here bemoaning the profession are the people with lots of free time to write on here bemoaning the profession! Makes you wonder why...



Is it not possible to offer an opposing opinion without resorting to insults?


Dan Lucas
Sheila Wilson
 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Panic not Jun 22, 2020

Don’t worry. It’s so easy to mangle who said what on this site:

Rachel Waddington wrote:

Chris S wrote:

WS McCallum wrote:

Etc etc


😂


Rachel Waddington
 
WS McCallum
WS McCallum
New Zealand
Local time: 23:51
French to English
Don't worry Rachel Jun 23, 2020

Rachel Waddington wrote:

Chris S wrote:

WS McCallum wrote:
Chris S - He did in fact.

No, he didn’t. Rachel Waddington did, but Marc Fisher didn’t. Case dismissed.

[Edited at 2020-06-22 13:36 GMT]



What did I do? Are you saying I misquoted someone? Confused ...


Don't worry Rachel; it's just Chris trying to avoid admitting that he got something wrong. Marc cited two conflated comments, including part of my original comment, giving a misleading impression: I corrected the impression that was being given, and then certain parties started wading in.

Neither you nor Marc need be concerned about this, although it is indicative of some of the tics and quirks that develop in those working in the sector for many years.

Getting back to Marc's future career. Some further advice would be to push your knowledge of both languages you know. Keep working with both of them and, if possible, learn a third. Bilingual translators have more limited work options than multi-lingual ones.


 
Rachel Waddington
Rachel Waddington  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:51
Dutch to English
+ ...
Adding a new language Jun 23, 2020

WS McCallum wrote:


Getting back to Marc's future career. Some further advice would be to push your knowledge of both languages you know. Keep working with both of them and, if possible, learn a third. Bilingual translators have more limited work options than multi-lingual ones.




Sorry, I'm going to completely disagree with this one. Why add a third source language when you already have two? The time and effort would surely be better invested in a specialism, honing existing languages or working on target language writing skills.


Christopher Schröder
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Sheila Wilson
Joe France
Dan Lucas
Jorge Payan
Paul Malone
 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Last try Jun 23, 2020

Marc Fisher wrote:

Many thanks for all the replies, they have been invaluable.

I will look for either an in-house role or traineeship, or failing that, a graduate scheme in another field that interests me for Sept 2021.

Tom in London wrote:

WS McCallum wrote:

.....consider getting a position in a translation agency or a large company or government organisation with a translation department....


I would recommend seeking some type of work as an in-house translator for a firm or organisation - any kind will do. This will enable you to become a translator who is specialised in a particular field.

Specialising in a particular field is essential for the successful translator.


Are these very common, I can't say that I have come across a large number of these roles bar SDL and the EU and UN traineeships?


If you cannot see the structure here, with what you said clearly separated in its own box, I do not know what else I can do.

Either way, there is no need to resort to insults every time your opinion is challenged.


 
WS McCallum
WS McCallum
New Zealand
Local time: 23:51
French to English
My original post in full Jun 23, 2020

WS McCallum wrote:


Hello Marc,

I was where you are a long time ago. My advice may be greeted with howls of derision and comments about the last of the dinosaurs etc., but consider getting a position in a translation agency or a large company or government organisation with a translation department: you will get to see how the profession works from the inside and will have mentors. All too many freelancers these days have no agency or office experience; they are good places for picking up the practical skills you will need and gaining specialist knowledge, whilst providing a regular income as you learn the ropes.


Chris, for your enlightenment, here is my original post in full.

[Edited at 2020-06-23 14:53 GMT]


 
WS McCallum
WS McCallum
New Zealand
Local time: 23:51
French to English
Versatility Jun 23, 2020

Rachel Waddington wrote:

WS McCallum wrote:


Getting back to Marc's future career. Some further advice would be to push your knowledge of both languages you know. Keep working with both of them and, if possible, learn a third. Bilingual translators have more limited work options than multi-lingual ones.




Sorry, I'm going to completely disagree with this one. Why add a third source language when you already have two? The time and effort would surely be better invested in a specialism, honing existing languages or working on target language writing skills.


The answer Rachel is versatility. If Marc were to add, say Portuguese or Catalan to his skills, he would be able to offer more to potential clients, particularly those who offer multi-lingual projects covering South-Western Europe. Narrow specialisation is a 20th century concept. We are entering new, leaner economic times and things are going to be much more hard-scrabble than they have been.

[Edited at 2020-06-23 09:33 GMT]


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:51
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
What fresh madness is this Jun 23, 2020

Rachel Waddington wrote:
Why add a third source language when you already have two?

Indeed. I think it was Kay-Viktor who pointed out in a recent thread that adding another source language broadens your scope, but it does nothing to deepen your ability to compete.

If you're not busy enough in a single source language, that suggests that you are not attracting enough customers, or not attracting good enough customers. I wouldn't have time to take on projects in a different source language, and it seems to me that most "successful" (always bearing in mind that "success" is a bit of a moveable feast) freelancers are in a similar situation.

Which takes us back to what you need to do to attract customers. There are many ways to do that - fantastic marketing skills, superlative linguistic chops, a rare ability translate at very high speeds while still maintaining quality, rock-solid reliability, unparalleled insights into the subject matter - but you need something or combination of somethings.

If you haven't succeeded in finding that something in one source language, why would you expect to find it in a second? Strikes me as being a tacit admission of failure.

(EDIT And by adding additional languages, you may well erode or dilute what makes you special in your first source language. I realise this is probably not going to be a popular stance, given that a considerable number of people have multiple source languages for European languages in particular...)

Regards,
Dan

PS You might translate from multiple source languages for fun, and that's a great reason, but it's also a slightly different issue to that of success defined in financial terms


[Edited at 2020-06-23 10:32 GMT]


Rachel Waddington
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 11:51
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Off-topic: no-one was misquoted Jun 23, 2020

WS McCallum wrote:
Don't worry Rachel; it's just Chris trying to avoid admitting that he got something wrong.
...
Marc cited two conflated comments, including part of my original comment, giving a misleading impression: I corrected the impression that was being given, and then...


Err, no. Mark quoted two appropriately nested comments, not two conflated comments. Here is the original post that shows who quoted what, marked up with colour to show which name is unambiguously attributed to which piece of text:

who said what

Tom quoted WS, and then Mark quoted Tom (which included Tom's quote of WS). Mark did not attribute Tom's comments to WS.

Perhaps the grey lines of the quotation boxes do not show up clearly on your screen? I'm just trying to help figure out why you can't see that the quotes are in fact correct.


[Edited at 2020-06-23 10:55 GMT]


Dan Lucas
Christopher Schröder
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:51
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Versatility or mediocrity? Jun 23, 2020

WS McCallum wrote:

Rachel Waddington wrote:

WS McCallum wrote:


Getting back to Marc's future career. Some further advice would be to push your knowledge of both languages you know. Keep working with both of them and, if possible, learn a third. Bilingual translators have more limited work options than multi-lingual ones.




Sorry, I'm going to completely disagree with this one. Why add a third source language when you already have two? The time and effort would surely be better invested in a specialism, honing existing languages or working on target language writing skills.


The answer Rachel is versatility. If Marc were to add, say Portuguese or Catalan to his skills, he would be able to offer more to potential clients, particularly those who offer multi-lingual projects covering South-Western Europe. Narrow specialisation is a 20th century concept. We are entering new, leaner economic times and things are going to be much more hard-scrabble than they have been.

[Edited at 2020-06-23 09:33 GMT]

How long, in your estimation would it take for someone to learn a language from scratch to the level needed to offer it as a source language, bearing in mind that that person also needs to earn a living? Also bear in mind that those of us who only have UK passports are about to lose our freedom of movement around the EU, so relocating as a freelance translator to immerse yourself in another language won't be easy -- maybe not even legally possible.

Personally, I've enjoyed the versatility of being an EFL trainer and an English copy-editor/proofreader over the last 25 years, but I only took up French to English translation once I'd lived in France for ten years, even though I'd studied it most of my life. I've been in Spain for eight years now and still don't translate from the language, although I do get by in it. But I'm now in the "old dog" category and that certainly makes a sad difference.


Joe France
Dan Lucas
Rachel Waddington
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
Kay Denney
 
WS McCallum
WS McCallum
New Zealand
Local time: 23:51
French to English
Garden path Jun 23, 2020

Samuel Murray wrote:

Err, no. Mark quoted two appropriately nested comments, not two conflated comments. Here is the original post that shows who quoted what, marked up with colour to show which name is unambiguously attributed to which piece of text:



[Edited at 2020-06-23 10:55 GMT]


Hello Samuel. As it was not my misreading, you would need to redirect your question to those concerned.

[Edited at 2020-06-24 00:16 GMT]


 
WS McCallum
WS McCallum
New Zealand
Local time: 23:51
French to English
"Fresh madness" Jun 23, 2020

Dan Lucas wrote:

What fresh madness is this

Indeed. I think it was Kay-Viktor who pointed out in a recent thread that....


Dan, a post that starts with the words "Fresh madness" in the header is not really a conversation opener.

Just a reminder of the ProZ rules:
"2 Mutual respect, professionalism and fair play are expected."


You have a nice day Dan.




[Edited at 2020-06-24 03:11 GMT]


 
WS McCallum
WS McCallum
New Zealand
Local time: 23:51
French to English
How long? Jun 24, 2020

Sheila Wilson wrote:

How long, in your estimation would it take for someone to learn a language from scratch to the level needed to offer it as a source language, bearing in mind that that person also needs to earn a living? Also bear in mind that those of us who only have UK passports are about to lose our freedom of movement around the EU, so relocating as a freelance translator to immerse yourself in another language won't be easy -- maybe not even legally possible.

Personally, I've enjoyed the versatility of being an EFL trainer and an English copy-editor/proofreader over the last 25 years, but I only took up French to English translation once I'd lived in France for ten years, even though I'd studied it most of my life. I've been in Spain for eight years now and still don't translate from the language, although I do get by in it. But I'm now in the "old dog" category and that certainly makes a sad difference.


That would depend entirely on the individual and their circumstances, but Marc is young and doubtless capable of it. There is also the "piggy-back" factor: learning, say, Portuguese if you have French and Spanish already would be quicker than taking up Vietnamese, for example. If Marc wishes to be solely a translator, then it would be an added string to his bow.

For all the brouhaha over Brexit and the annoyance it has caused on the Continent, I have not heard any rumours that the Europeans are intending to ban Brits from travelling and studying in the EU.


[Edited at 2020-06-24 00:14 GMT]


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:51
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
What fresh deflection is this? Jun 24, 2020

WS McCallum wrote:
Dan, a post that starts with the words "Fresh madness" in the header is not really a conversation opener.

This looks a lot like an attempt to derail the discussion by crying foul. The conversation has been open for some time. You haven't defended your assertion that being a generalist is a better route to success than becoming a specialist, and now you are trying to take the moral high ground by implying that I'm being disrespectful (this is after you accused me of straw manning you and another member of point scoring).

This is not a question of personal animus. I can be respectful - and have been respectful - while still believing that the strategy you're advocating is madness. To be specific, one popular definition of insanity(often attributed, probably wrongly, to Einstein) is "trying the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result".

In that sense, I do indeed believe adding more source languages if you're not already successful in your first and strongest language is madness, at least for the vast majority of translators. As far as I can see, it will pile failure upon failure. If you're not succeeding in your strongest language, you need to change something about your approach. That is what I honestly believe.

I do not insist that you - or anybody else - agree with me. Nor do I insist that others refrain from challenging my views, or demand that people avoid words I personally dislike. The point of discussion in a professional context is to clarify, illuminate, and inform, and sometimes it takes a robust exchange of views to achieve that.

Regards,
Dan


Christopher Schröder
Joe France
Rachel Waddington
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:51
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
UK rights in the EU Jun 24, 2020

WS McCallum wrote:
For all the brouhaha over Brexit and the annoyance it has caused on the Continent, I have not heard any rumours that the Europeans are intending to ban Brits from travelling and studying in the EU.

They will be able to get a student visa, that's true. But they will have to pay overseas student fees -- which are high. And they will not be allowed to do any work to finance their studies or earn a living. In other words, they'd have to have a well-off family backing them.


WS McCallum
Kay Denney
 
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Starting up as a translator directly after University







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