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Dutch to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting / title of an artwork
Dutch term or phrase:geld als water verdienen
Het gaat om een vertaling van de titel van een kunstwerk dat bestaat uit gescheurd geld; op zo'n manier gescheurd dat het eindresultaat op een zee lijkt. Omdat het kunstwerk naar New York gaat zoeken we een vertaling van Geld als water verdienen, waarin dat water terug komt.
Nou, ik zou dat zinnetje van mij maar als ludiek opvatten.
Neen, ik wens niemand de wet voor te schrijven maar ik vind het onbehoorlijk als er veel mensen kosteloos aan jouw probleem werken (hier 50 discussieposten) en dat vraagstelster dan niet reageert. Dat heeft niks met welk vakgebied of met het voorschrijven van wetten te maken... maar met goed fatsoen en daar mag ik best iemand op wijzen!
En ik merk op dat dit de laatste tijd veel gebeurt.
A. het 'rolling in' vind ik prachtig, omdat deze vertaling golven suggereert, dat is wat anders dan "water".
B. van alle antwoorden met "golven" (pouring, wave upon wave, rolling) heeft juist dat antwoord dat U gekozen hebt niks met dat van doen.
Het commentaar van MB begrijp ik dan ook wel een beetje.
@Asker: U kunt hier gratis een verzoek tot hulp voor vertaling doen; goede zeden dicteren dan echter dat participatie in de discussie erg op prijs wordt gesteld, zeker na enkele verzoeken zulks...
maar ook niet totaal onmogelijk. Beetje dimmen, hè. Het blijft misschien behelpen met 'water' verplicht.
'rolls in like water' means 'in great quantities' :-)
Michaels....Mitt Romney was delusional about becoming the President of the USA....he wants to be President so badly and thought MONEY would do it for him. He learned a very good lesson on this regard. I too was nervous about the money rolling in like water to defeat the President, but as it turn out to be MONEY is helpless in the face of people's voices.
... which is to be expected, as I never said that I agree with Berend's answer. I don’t. I just don’t think yours is correct either.
My comment on Barend's suggestion, 'Have money rolling in like water.' was as follows:
'Hi Barend, I don’t think this sounds right in English. ~~ I think you got it half right. 'Money rolling in' sounds good, 'like water' less good. I think what you were searching for was 'rolling in like waves'. This is a common idiom, & also fits the brief.'
Whether I actually care or not is beside the point. The fact remains that half of your answer revolves around a phrase that is unidiomatic in English. Getting angry at me for pointing that out isn’t going to change it. In English, you 'spend' money like water, you don't 'make' it.
I don’t care who gets the points. What I care about is that someone doesn't end up giving their artwork a dodgy title as a result of your answer being selected as correct.
How does your 'Grading comment' 'Dank voor je suggestie: het 'rolling in' vind ik prachtig, omdat deze vertaling golven suggereert' in any way relate to Dave's answer ('makes money like water'), which you ended up choosing as the correct answer, and which, in my opinion, is based on something that is unidiomatic in English? Or at least half of its 'double entendre'. Barend is the only person here who made any mention of 'rolling'. Did you perhaps select the wrong answer?
Zou je ons kunnen vertellen hoe belangrijk het aspect is van een persoon die geld verdient als water?
Of gaat het meer om de uitdrukking 'geld verdienen als water' in algemene zin.
In het laatste geval lijkt er veel meer mogelijk.
Bij voorbaat dank.
Elke verdere informatie is ook welkom. Je hoeft niet deel te nemen aan de discussie. Je plaatst gewoon de informatie die je denkt die nuttig is en klaar is Mieke.
I would like to add that normally a word would not be 'missing' in a double entendre. Rather the same sentence can be readily read in two different ways.
There is another problem with this 'double entendre', I realized this only some time later and this is the following.
The idea is based on the target language and not on the source language.
In Dutch you would have:
geld verdienen als water geld eruit laten zien als water
'geld verdienen als water' is highly unlikely to be read as 'geld eruit laten zien als water'
This means I don't believe this is to do with a double entendre.
Besides, what would be the message of this presumed double entendre? I mean what would it convey to the reader if they could read 'geld verdienen als water' as 'geld eruit laten zien als water'. What is the semantic connection? Ik makes no sense whatsoever.
As I said a few times before, I believe this about a literal visual representation of a metaphorical idiom.
In reference to Dave's answer, you said, 'For authentic native Anglos this title is PERFECT (I assume the NL title will be used as well). This inherently surreal brouhaha is a sad testimony to what this language pair has now become.'
However, how can an answer that relies on a double entendre, half of which is unidiomatic, be 'perfect'? Are you therefore saying that 'making money like water' / 'to make money like water' is idiomatic English?
The asker said: Omdat het kunstwerk naar New York gaat zoeken we een vertaling van Geld als water verdienen, waarin dat water terug komt.
Since we were asked to come up with a title for an artwork, I think Mieke won't mind if we stretch our imagination slightly so as to include things like sea, ocean, waves, etc., in addition to only 'water'.
Dave, you are not going daft. But the fact remains that half of your double entendre is unidiomatic.
Sounds a lot like Olympic Strawgrasping here - why have the seas suddenly become rivers? Why not change the money to modelling clay, then we can make what we want....
– a river of money, – earning rivers of money – rivers of money, – A river of money runs through it (if you had seen 'A River Runs Through', you would see why this is funny), – Money River, etc.
It doesn't solve the problem, if I understand you correctly. Both parts of the 'double entendre' should be authentic English.
One element of the 'double entendre' is "making money look like water". This would probably be okay.
However, the other element, "making money like water", is supposed to stand for "geld verdienenen als water", while this, as we discussed, is not authentic English.
Another problem might be, whether a person looking at it would arrive at 'making money look like water' from 'making money like water'.
A further problem might be whether the artist wanted to convey a message like 'make money look like water', which seems to be a bit childish.
Without further information, my guess would be that the artist wanted to create a literal representation of the Dutch idiom 'geld verdienen als water'.
So the doubleness would be literally vs figuratively
Am I going daft, or is everybody missing the point here? The artist is showing paper money that has been ripped to make it look like the sea. What has he done? He has "made money like water" - when he was ripping the bills, he was "making money (look) like water" Could this not be what the artist is attempting to convey? A perfect example of a "double entendre" artwork. If not, it should be!
To be honest, I don’t like any of the suggestions offered so far. That is, not as a title for a work of art. They aren't exactly catchy or clever. I would need some more information from Mieke de Wit (the asker) before continuing.
If you feel like entering it as a separate answer, go ahead.
I need to say that the combination of 'money' and 'waves' doesn't sound ideal either, to my non-native ears. While 'water' and 'money' can be combined a bit better, so it would seem.
Of course,
'rolling in like waves' is significantly better than 'rolling in like water'.
Although I agree with most of what you said, there is sometimes also something to be said for the fresh pair of ears that a non-native speaker can bring to the table. Non-native speakers of English often adopt a more questioning and critical attitude towards their new language, and may consequently spot things that we might overlook due to overconfidence or other reasons.
For example, although you are a native speaker of English, you suggested an answer which is unidiomatic. Barend, on the other hand, who is not a native speaker of English, noticed this and tried to think of a better solution.
No more room below, if you don't mind I will respond here.
(Many thanks you don't mind. :-))
Many thanks for consulting your wife. Your & her comment makes sense to me.
For at least 2 reasons.
1) 'rolling' is much more likely to be associated with waves than with water. And it sounds good (but I am not native). I even see them rolling in.
2) What you say seems to be consistent with what I find on Google. Little results for 'rolling in like water' By the way, 'water rolling in' gives more hits, also on co.uk, but is a different thing because 'like' is absent. Many results for rolling in like waves.
How about slightly altering your answer, until it reads:
money rolling in like waves
Water doesn't really roll, but waves do! Here are a number of examples, plucked from the interwebs:
<tt>rolling in like waves on an abandoned bulk carrier rolling in like waves on a beach rolling in like waves at the beach rolling in like waves from the sea rolling in like waves on the sand rolling in like waves of dragon breath all around us rolling in like waves of desert heat clouds rolling in like waves over la guardia this morning</tt>
In all the time I've been a member, I've never dreamt of getting involved in the Eng>Dutch KudoZ - even though I speak Dutch to a near-native standard. The reason being, some of the idiosyncrasies of a language can be totally lost on a non-native speaker, no matter how well they speak it. Which is why answers offered by Dutch natives on the NL>Eng KudoZ, however well intended, sometimes sound "a bit daft" to the English ear and which is why clients much prefer native speakers to translate their work.
I am in no way trying to demonstrate my debating skills, as you suggested. I am merely trying to help come up with a decent translation for the asker. You said that if I 'had ever lived in England', I would be bound to have heard of your suggested answer. Well, I have, and I have never heard it used as such. I have also lived in the US for many years. Never heard it used there either. Your argument rests on the importance of knowledge of idioms gained through living in the target language country. That is the reason I mentioned that my wife, who is British, also thinks it sounds wrong. But there is another reason I chose to mention her. Sadly, there are a few misguided souls here on Proz who persist in assuming that I am Dutch (rather than Dutch-American), just because my last name is 'Beijer'. They somehow cannot believe that a person might actually be bilingual. That is, speak both languages ... equally poorly.
This is a discussion area – a place for discussing the question at hand, and that is what I am using it for. Discussing.
talking together towards a solution. Especially when it's a complex issue. And what do you like better, being given a chance to justify your answer or a disagree without any comment?
Discussing may have a number of advantages.
We may learn from each other, we may get to know why someone agrees or disagrees, we don't necessarily have to formally disagree with someone.
No one likes these red signs.
However, nobody here ever seems to try to follow what the other person is saying nor giving a sign that is understood or considered what has just been said.
Although Michael now answered my question about the English equivalent. :-)
I've been contributing to KudoZ for over ten years now. It used to be that members would "disagree", "agree" or "neutral" an answer, and then propose an alternative instead of focusing their efforts on challenging a proposed answer. The fact is, nobody has come up with any alternatives, none that would fit the brief anyway. All I'm hearing is "yes, but...", "no, but..." and "but my wife must be more British than you..". KudoZ is not intended to be used by members to demonstrate debating skills, it's here to help fellow members get answers - and should be used as such. If my proposed answer is not considered suitable, then let's spend some effort on finding one that is and not wasting that effort on endless criticism when a simple "disagree" will suffice.
1) 'A great deal of the Dutch language is made up of idioms.' As we know, a great deal of the English language is made up of idioms as well. I have here Collins COBUILD Dictionary of Idioms. This is more than 500 pages of idioms and then an idiom like 'make money like water' has not even been included. :-) I find only some 11 other idioms that contain water.
2) I pointed out that 'geld verdienen als water' produced 39.000 Google hits in Dutch. Of course there must be some kind of similar expression in English that produces the same number of hits but not necessarily someone containing water of course.
You Britons would say: 'Making loads of money' for example, only this one is not useful in this specific case.
What is actually the authentic British equivalent for 'geld verdienen als water' ? Thank you.
Notice that there is not one mention of making or earning money (or anything else of value) 'like water'. The correct idiom always seems to relate to spending (or rapid consumption, or abundance), not making, earning, saving, etc.
I therefore think that although some people might use it, it is in fact the wrong idiom.
Let's look at all of the examples Oxford provides for 'like water'. I have put a star behind all of the ones where the correct (in my opinion) idiom is used:
– George was spending money like water. ✪ – However, many people, especially the wealthy classes, spend money like water. ✪ – Still, it seeps in like water and before you know it you are drowning. – The real show takes place in the Festhallen, wherein the beer runs like water and tastes like the nectar of the gods. – We were in Chinatown with a group of acquaintances and the warm Sake was flowing like water. – The richest traders of the city gathered at Kaiser Park, and liquor and money flowed like water. – The town's bars, shops and eating places were packed all day and money was flowing like water. ✪ – Every time I ask for money social services say we're looking after the money because I spend it like water. ✪ – Remember when he spoke of guns and ammunition entering this country like water? – Dump the currency restrictions and let capital flow in and out of this country like water. – If spending money like water was the answer to our country's problems, we would have no problems now. ✪
I just asked my wife, who is very British (http://www.proz.com/profile/1344269 ), and she also feels that 'spending money like water' is the correct idiom and that 'making money like water' just sounds wrong.
Now I know that 'like water' can mean 'abundantly; consumed rapidly or found in great quantity' (see, e.g., http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/like_water), and that Oxford defines 'like water' as 'in great quantities', and that, therefore, logically, 'making money like water' should work. However, it just sounds wrong and I would not use it.
@Barend There's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that Barend. As we know, a great deal of the Dutch language is made up of idioms. If a Dutch person was told he's not allowed to use a saying during a conversation, he would probably be rendered totally speechless. That is not intended to be offensive, it is a fact - think about it for a moment and I'm sure you'll agree.
again, you may be right but I have nothing to go by to confirm it. I leave this to others. Somehow, I can't get rid of my suspiciousness. Also because I can't see why such a well-known expression like 'geld verdienen als water' was not likely to occur on the internet.
In Dutch, Google produces 39.000 hits for 'geld als water verdienen'
@Barend That doesn't surprise me - it's not as if it's a phrase like "money-back guarantee" or "last chance to take advantage of" - it's more likely to be used during a conversation than in literature.
most likely this was the inspiration for the artwork. Probably/possibly he wanted to literally represent the Dutch saying 'geld maken als water' or something.
But that's not problem. The problem is how can you render the Dutch phrase 'geld maken als water' into authentic English, while maintaining 'water'.
@Barend This is one case when I feel the amount of Google results are totally meaningless. I have personally heard the expression "he makes money like water" thousands of times.
Could it be that the phrase "making money like water" was the inspiration for the artwork? He has in fact made the banknote look like water by tearing it - a sort of non-sexual double entendre..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_entendre
Does it have to be 'verdienen'? If you change it to 'uitgeven', you could translate it as 'spend money like water' / 'spending money like water' / 'spends money like water', etc. (or 'go through money like it's water' / 'going through money like it's water', etc.)
Explanation: This what is came up for me (I have been living in the US for 18 years), and it has 42 google hits, as opposed to 11 for "rolling in". But that is not to say one is right or the other is wrong. Just another suggestion. I'd rather be creative with words as long as the message comes accross, at least in this context of naming a piece of art. If "earning" is important in this context, then it's probably not suitable. This rather means that "things are going well" or that you "just hit the right thing".
Lianne van de Ven United States Local time: 05:57 Native speaker of: Dutch PRO pts in category: 4
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