zwemmer

11:42 Dec 22, 2015 

Barend, with all my respect,

I would like to see the official name of the syndrome posted as an answer, because I am afraid that whatever ubiquitous colloquial/non-colloquial Flemish usage, I really can't translate it as 'swimmers" in English, and the absolute best here would be if this condition is identified by its full name.

16:25 Dec 20, 2015 

I stand corrected :-). It was indeed Phil who first mentioned 'splay-leg syndrome in pigs' in his answer. I think you a did a great job though to explain why 'swimmers' is best avoided in this specific context.

16:09 Dec 20, 2015 

This was my position.

I did not enter an own separate answer since Phil mentioned 'splayleg' in his answer (in fact 'splayleg' occurred in your own reference as well).

It is a confusing situation and the most strongest arguments not to opt for 'swimmer' are:

1) you cannot find any or minimal references where 'swimmer' is used in connection with piglets
2) when you use the general term you are always right, whether 'swimmer' would be acceptable or not.
3) 'splayleg' is unambiguous and everybody will understand it, which is most important in your context.

In your specific context I would use:

piglets born weak, stillborn piglets and newborn piglets with congenital splayleg

You can also use an own variant of course.

I was all the time convinced they were referring to the whole group of piglets with congenital splayleg and not just this small subgroup in which both the hind limbs and forelimbs are affected (and which might evoke an image of a swimmer), this would be highly unlikely.

Kitty offered an explanation for why they used 'swimmer' for the whole group: Flemish usage.

So, you could accept Phil's answer but use my suggestion, unless Phil would not agree with this.

14:01 Dec 20, 2015 

You're welcome and I don't mind at all if Barend posts the official name of the syndrome as an answer. After all, he was the first to suggest (and defend) it :-)

13:58 Dec 20, 2015 

I don’t know about KudoZ. You Kitty were most thorough about it, but Barend was there first. I knew of course that I couldn’t use ‘swimmers’, but I was stuck on it, and Barend at least let me go on with the text. Great thanks for it!
So Barend please post the official name of the syndrome. I am much indebted to both of you, guys!

19:44 Dec 19, 2015 

Katerina seems to be working on a Flemish text (see previously discussed use of 'herlopers', which is indeed the Flemish equivalent of NL Dutch 'terugkomers').
As far as I can see (see reference comment I posted below), 'zwemmers' is often used as a synonym for 'splayleg' (i.e. porcine congenital splayleg (PCS)) in Flemish publications, including academic publications.

My research hasn't revealed any hits for 'swimmers' in direct relation to this congenital condition in pigs.

23:33 Dec 18, 2015 

I did notice that,
I don't deny that 'swimmer' is used with regards to this condition.

I just point out that 'swimmer' is not used with regards to 'piglets' (also not in this last reference).

And if it was used with regards to piglets then this would only make some sense if it concerned the minority subgroup where both the hind limbs and forelimbs are affected.

15:27 Dec 18, 2015 

You haven't read my last reference, which uses the word "swimmer" several times. Anyway, let's let Katerina decide.

14:35 Dec 18, 2015 

This is of course a completely different problem that they intend to solve and prevent by nutrition.

You could just use 'prevention of crooked legs'

so no obscure congental condition but a possible nutritional problem

12:39 Dec 18, 2015 

One question: I just encountered "preventie kromme poten"
would that be the same as splayed legs?
or is it just the crucial difference between the so called swimmers and other pigs affected with "kromme poten" disease?
or should I post it as another question?

17:17 Dec 17, 2015 

volgens mij praten we langs elkaar heen.

1) Alleen die biggen waarbij de voorpoten zijn aangedaan worden zwemmers genoemd, savvy?

2) ik ga ervan uit dat men de hele groep van biggen met 'congenital splayleg' bedoelt, niet alleen de groep waarbij zowel de achterpoten als de voorpoten zijn aangedaan. --> alleen de groep waarbij de voorpoten zijn aangedaan zou je met enig recht 'zwemmers' kunnen noemen maar je moet de hele groep aanduiden

3) In het Engels vind je zelfs voor die groep waarbij ook de voorpoten zijn aangedaan de term 'swimmer' niet

4) het enige wat ik in je nieuwe ref zie is een Photo of a Pig with Splay leg

5) Ik zou zeker geen 'swimmer' gebruiken want het Engelse publiek zal niet begrijpen waar je het over hebt

16:44 Dec 17, 2015 

Katerina's own reference says "Soms zijn ook de voorpoten aangetast (zwemmers)", so your reference to hind legs is not relevant to this context.
And can I find a reference to porcine swimmers? Yes. This page is about all sorts of animals, including pigs.
http://www.hausmerkel.com/Splay-leg.htm
I can't believe I'm having this discussion:-)

12:15 Dec 17, 2015 

Your own reference:

The most common form of the condition is hindleg splays; the back legs splay out sideways and forward, causing the pig great difficulty in standing on its hind end. Many will "dog sit" and shuffle around on their backsides

If the forelimbs are not affected you are not justified in calling them 'swimmers', since this image would not apply in that case.

You need to use the general term.

Also, can you find any reference with 'swimmer' with regards to pigs?

Also, see Katerina's reference: http://www.dkhn.nl/varken/aandoeningen/klauwen.aspx

12:06 Dec 17, 2015 

It's obviously "swimmer", which is the literal translation of "zwemmer". And splayleg affects both front and hind legs. "The most common form of the condition is hindleg splays; the back legs splay out sideways and forward, causing the pig great difficulty in standing on its hind end. Many will "dog sit" and shuffle around on their backsides. This can lead to considerable skin trauma and secondary infection. Front leg splays also occur."
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/musculoskeletal_system/con...

00:56 Dec 17, 2015 

I will react here. There is no further space below.

I advise strongly against the use of 'swimmer'.

'swimmer' cannot be used here.

Why?

The official name of the condition is 'porcine congenital splayleg'.

This condition concerns in the large majority of cases the hind limbs and in a very few cases both the hind limbs and the forelimbs.

only in case the forelimbs are affected the term 'swimmer' is justified.

This alone does already rule out the use of 'swimmer'.

Why?

You would only refer to this small subset while this is about the complete group of piglets with congenital swayleg.

Furthermore you won't find or find only very few references where 'swimmers' is used with regard to piglets.

One main reason being this few cases in which the forelimbs are affected.
'Swimmer' may even not be useful at all in the case of pigs.

Dit kan leiden tot:

•te zwak geboren biggen, dood geboren biggen of zwemmers