shovel chair

French translation: chaise pelle

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:shovel chair
French translation:chaise pelle
Entered by: B D Finch

18:45 Jun 3, 2017
English to French translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting / contemporary art - video
English term or phrase: shovel chair
Moyen de torture utilisé pendant le moyen-âge d'une chaise sur laquelle le condammné était assis à la surface de l'eau puis noyé.

Je ne vois pas ceci traduit, peut-on le traduire par chaise à la pelle ?

Pour plus de contexte lire:http://metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/459209
Karine Sarant
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:07
chaise pelle
Explanation:
Be careful with this, as the term “shovel chair” doesn't exist in English and only appears in the text to explain the pun in Flemish as, otherwise, the drawing of men shovelling chairs seems pointlessly weird. The English word for "scupstoel", judging by the explanation given in your text, is "ducking stool" i.e. nothing to do with shovels.

The subject is a pun on the word scupstoel (literally “shovel chair”)

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Note added at 1 day17 mins (2017-06-04 19:03:05 GMT)
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You need to explain the pun in French and, for this purpose "chaise pelle" would, be a French literal translation of "scupstoel".

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Note added at 1 day33 mins (2017-06-04 19:19:54 GMT)
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I note that Petitavoine has found a reference that says "Scupstoel" was a chair for estrapade (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrapade_(supplice)). If that is correct, then your (source text?) reference http://metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/459209 is wrong, because it is describing the punishment of ducking. People who were ducked could end up dead or brain-damaged through drowning, but generally they suffered no permanent physical harm.

Petitavoine's own reference also shows that a cuck stool was something different again. It was a sort of toilet stool and was used for shaming by parading the victim through the town or village on it (probably with a bare bum).
Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 06:07
Grading comment
Merci pour toutes vos recherches. Tres utile.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4chaise pelle
B D Finch
Summary of reference entries provided
Suggestion
Jocelyne Cuenin

Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


1 day 14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
chaise pelle


Explanation:
Be careful with this, as the term “shovel chair” doesn't exist in English and only appears in the text to explain the pun in Flemish as, otherwise, the drawing of men shovelling chairs seems pointlessly weird. The English word for "scupstoel", judging by the explanation given in your text, is "ducking stool" i.e. nothing to do with shovels.

The subject is a pun on the word scupstoel (literally “shovel chair”)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day17 mins (2017-06-04 19:03:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

You need to explain the pun in French and, for this purpose "chaise pelle" would, be a French literal translation of "scupstoel".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day33 mins (2017-06-04 19:19:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I note that Petitavoine has found a reference that says "Scupstoel" was a chair for estrapade (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrapade_(supplice)). If that is correct, then your (source text?) reference http://metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/459209 is wrong, because it is describing the punishment of ducking. People who were ducked could end up dead or brain-damaged through drowning, but generally they suffered no permanent physical harm.

Petitavoine's own reference also shows that a cuck stool was something different again. It was a sort of toilet stool and was used for shaming by parading the victim through the town or village on it (probably with a bare bum).

B D Finch
France
Local time: 06:07
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Merci pour toutes vos recherches. Tres utile.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  GILOU: c'est un style de chaise, mais là c'est au moyen âge et ça fait plutôt référence à la torture
10 hrs
  -> The point is to translate the ST to explain the pun, not to find whether some company calls one of their chair designs a "chaise pelle".
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Reference comments


2 hrs
Reference: Suggestion

Reference information:
http://www.britannica.com/topic/cucking-stool

appelé aussi cuck stool entre autres,
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/C/CuckingStool.aspx
ce qui a pu donner scupstoel
http://dict.woxikon.fr/fr-nl/pelle

Si vous traduisez le texte que vous donnez en lien : quand il faut expliquer que c'est un jeu de mots, j'essaierais comme cela :

The subject is a pun on the word scupstoel (literally “shovel chair”)...
...sur le mot «scupstoel » (scup signifiant pelle et stoel siège)...

Éventuellement ajouter 'cucking stool', parce qu'il semble que c'était surtout connu en Grande-Bretagne.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2017-06-03 21:45:01 GMT)
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Ou plutôt : 'scup' pouvant signifier pelle...

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Note added at 3 hrs (2017-06-03 21:55:43 GMT)
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Autrement, à Bruxelles, l'endroit s'appelle l'Estrapade :
"Une interprétation plus prosaïque réfère au nom d’une ancienne maison qui occupait l’emplacement, « de Scupstoel », c’est-à-dire « l’estrapade », décomposé en un rébus formé des mots « scup », la pelle, et « stoel », la chaise."

Voici une représentation de l'estrapade, mais sans la chaise : http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Les_misères_et_les_ma...

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Note added at 3 hrs (2017-06-03 22:08:36 GMT)
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http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maison_de_l'Estrapade
Étymologie
L'ancien néerlandais scupstoel (schopstoel) désigne un instrument de torture médiéval que l'on peut traduire par « chaise de bannissement » : il s'agissait d'une sorte de potence à bascule (wipgalg) qui servait à infliger le supplice de l'estrapade avant de procéder au bannissement du coupable hors de la ville (le verbe schoppen ayant eu jadis le sens de chasser, écarter)

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Note added at 3 hrs (2017-06-03 22:14:19 GMT)
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Et ici le chapiteau qui a peut-être inspiré votre artiste :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maison_de_l'Estrapade#/media/Fi...

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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2017-06-04 20:18:44 GMT)
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Cucking stool /ducking stool : en fait, ce serait mieux, si vous voulez utilisez un terme anglais d'utiliser 'scolding stool', je pense qu'on pourrait mettre tout le monde d'accord.
http://books.google.de/books?id=hLZCAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA372&lpg=PA...

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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2017-06-04 20:19:16 GMT)
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si vous voulez utiliser...

Jocelyne Cuenin
Germany
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 14

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Hélène OShea
1 hr
  -> Bonjour Hélène, et merci !
disagree  B D Finch: This was not "estrapade", a more brutal form of torture, but a ducking stool "a contraption ... in which felons were raised above water and then dropped in". Also not a "cucking stool", which was to shame the victim, not to physically hurt or duck them.
21 hrs
  -> Il se peut qu'il y ait une confusion, car le dessin, selon le texte, est bien une étude du chapiteau de la maison de l'estrapade, maintenant à l'emplacement de l'Hôtel de Ville de Bruxelles + cf 'cucking pool' sous mon nouveau lien.
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