barter

Spanish translation: canjear / hacer un canje

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

English term or phrase:	barter
Spanish translation:	canjear / hacer un canje
Entered by:	Beatriz Ramírez de Haro

18:07 Dec 18, 2013

English to Spanish translations [PRO]
Linguistics

English term or phrase: barter

Hola a todos, estoy traduciendo instrucciones y ejercicios de un manual para estudiantes que no hablan inglés como primera lengua y para que practiquen la redacción en este idioma.
Tengo una duda con este término... en este contexto me parece muy raro que hable de una permuta o trueque. ¿O estoy equivocada y es común esta práctica en los Estados Unidos?
¿Podré utilizar un término más general, como "canjear"?
Cualquier sugerencia es bienvenida.
Muchas gracias por la ayuda, como siempre.

Contexto:
Hello, can I help you?
Yes, I’m looking for a pair of sandals.
What size do you wear?
I wear a size six. Can I try that blue pair in the window?
I’m sorry, those sandals aren’t in stock in a size six.
But, I recommend these.
What do you think?
I think they look nice, but I’d like to try them on.
How do they fit?
They fit like a glove!
How much do they cost?
They are reasonably priced at $45.
I don’t think I can afford that!
Can I barter?
I’m sorry, you can’t. We don’t barter here.
Maybe there is a deal for students.
Can you give me a discount?
Yes, I can. For students we give a $10 discount.
That’s better.
Would you like a receipt?
Yes, please print a receipt for me.

agusmza KudoZ activity Questions: 131 (10 open) Answers: 0
Local time: 01:55

canjear / hacer un canje

Explanation:
Entiendo que tu propuesta es la mejor.

Selected response from:

Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
Spain
Local time: 06:55

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

5 +2

trueque

Phoenix III

4 +2

regatear

Eva Petersson

4 +2

negociar/discutir

Marian Martin (X)

3 +3

canjear / hacer un canje

Beatriz Ramírez de Haro

4 +1

¿Se puede negociar?

InesV

trato

JohnMcDove

Summary of reference entries provided

Can 'barter' mean haggling? Fascinating...

Pablo Julián Davis

Discussion entries: 6

JohnMcDove

United States

Cierto, Pablo.

23:03 Dec 18, 2013

Buena apreciación. Parece que es una forma “educada” de decir: “¿Me hace un descuentito?” o “¿Puedo pedirle un descuento especial?” Lo siento, pero no. No podemos hacer tratos especiales. Bueno, ¿hay alguna oferta especial?... Creo que está regateando aunque se lo tengan “prohibido”, o sea cual sea el eufemismo que se quiera usar... (Y yo no creo en meigas... pero haberlas, haylas...)

Pablo Julián Davis

Otro ángulo...

22:29 Dec 18, 2013

Se me hace que tiene sentido la pregunta, '¿Se aceptan canjes?' pero realmente no me cuadra que uno pregunte, '¿Se puede regatear?' O sea, si lo que uno quiere es negociar, lo lógico sería, no pedir permiso para hacerlo, sino tirarse el lance: 'Puedo pagar $35, ¿le parece?' o algo así ('Would you take $35 for it?')

Es decir: me parecería lógico, dentro del diálogo, preguntar si aceptan canjes, e incluso tantear un regateo... pero no pedir permiso para regatear.

JohnMcDove

United States

I agree with "trueque" conceptually speaking.

22:20 Dec 18, 2013

From a viewpoint of colloquial usage I'd go with "hacer un canje" "¿Se aceptan canjes?" "¿Se acepta algún tipo de canje?" incluso "intercambio" podría servir... Aunque sin tener todo el contexto tampoco se puede descartar totalmente “el regateo”. ¿Me permite regatear? ¿Se puede regatear? (La primera vez que fui a Italia con 17 años y sin “saber” italiano... recuerdo ponerme a regatear con los vendedores callejeros... sólo por el juego divertido que daba... Travieso que era yo, cuando tenía el precio reducido a la mitad de lo que habían pedido, decía que no lo quería...) // Random House Websters Unabridged también da un uso figurativo: barter 3. to bargain away unwisely or dishonorably (usually fol. by away): bartering away his pride for material gain.

Pablo Julián Davis

Collins is ONLY one to register 'haggling' sense.

21:52 Dec 18, 2013

Please see my Reference item. Only 1 (Collins) of 9 dictionaries I consulted registers this sense. (Y nótese bien: the definition supplied by Eva does not say 'to haggle over price' but rather 'to haggle over the terms of such an exchange', meaning non-monetary trade.) By preponderance of evidence, 'barter' overwhelmingly means non-monetary exchange of goods or services.

Eva Petersson

Sweden

COLLINS English Dictionary: " barter"=

21:21 Dec 18, 2013

(vb) 1. to trade in exchange for other goods; 2. to haggle over the terms of such an exchange; bargain (noun) 3. trade by the exchange of goods

nahuelhuapi

Argentina

Iría con

20:54 Dec 18, 2013

"hacer canje"

Answers

19 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

regatear

Explanation:
It is just a translation from the dictionary. To barter is to discuss the price until you get it low enough for yourself.

Eva Petersson
Sweden
Local time: 06:55
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Swedish

20 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

negociar/discutir

Explanation:
El interlocutor pregunta si puede negociar o discutir el precio con el vendedor. También podría utilizar la palabra "regatear" aunque me gusta menos. Saludos.

Marian Martin (X)
Spain
Local time: 06:55
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Spanish
PRO pts in category: 8

Notes to answerer

Asker: Lo consulté con un colega estadounidense y me confirmó tu rta. Por lo general, suelen utilizar "barter" con el significado de "haggle". Muchas gracias!!

36 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

trueque

Explanation:
See explicit definitions for Trueque y pedir rebajas/negociar precio.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 43 mins (2013-12-18 18:50:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Initially, the student asks if he/she can barter (common practice in colleges/universities) when told that option was unavailable, the student asks for a discount. Based on this, both terms cannot be interpreted as one and the same simply because they are not.

Reference: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/haggle
Reference: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barter

Phoenix III
United States
Local time: 00:55
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English,

Spanish

3 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

canjear / hacer un canje

Explanation:
Entiendo que tu propuesta es la mejor.

Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
Spain
Local time: 06:55
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Spanish
PRO pts in category: 182

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

4 hrs confidence:

trato

Explanation:
trato

Bueno, sugiero esta redacción (2 ideas), tras las buenas intervenciones... teniendo en cuenta que sí hablamos de “negociar”, creo que “pedir un trato” puede funcionar en español. (Aunque como indica Pablo, cuando queremos regatear, nos echamos al ruedo sin demasiadas contemplaciones...)

Can I barter?

¿Podemos hacer un trato especial? / ¿Le puedo pedir un trato especial?

I’m sorry, you can’t. We don’t barter here.

Lo siento, no podemos. / Lo siento, pero no. No hacemos tratos especiales aquí.

Maybe there is a deal for students.

A lo mejor hay una oferta especial para estudiantes.

Can you give me a discount?

¿Podría darme/hacerme un descuento?

Yes, I can. For students we give a $10 discount.

Sí, eso sí. A los estudiantes les damos un descuento de $10 dólares.

***
Deal? / ¿De acuerdo?

Trato hecho.

Bueno, suerte.

JohnMcDove
United States
Local time: 21:55
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Spanish
PRO pts in category: 40

6 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

¿Se puede negociar?

Explanation:
Todas las propuestas son acertadas, sin duda.
Incluyo una más, todo se puede negociar...

Saludos

InesV
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Spanish
PRO pts in category: 4

Reference comments

2 hrs

Reference: Can 'barter' mean haggling? Fascinating...

Reference information:
I must say, I reacted to that idea just the same as Phoenix III: I did a double-take, in disbelief. Then I got curious enough to do a little bit of research. Went to all the online dictionaries I could think of, and this is what I came up with (YES means there is a definition of 'barter' as bargain, haggle; NO means there is not).

oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/barter NO
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barter NO
dictionary.reference.com/browse/barter (Random House) NO
dictionary.reference.com/browse/barter (Am.Heritage Dict. of Cultural Literacy) NO
macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/barter NO
dictionary.reference.com/browse/barter (Collins 10th ed) YES, 3RD OF 3 DEF'S
ldoceonline.com/dictionary/barter_1 NO
dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/american-english/barter NO
urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=barter NO

What does this mean? I infer that 'barter' in the sense of bargaining or haggling does exist, but it must be only a blip for only one dictionary in nine (in my sample, at least) to register that sense. On the other hand, the fact that any lexicographer has picked this up indicates to me that there is real usage out there in this sense. So, we may in the early days of a new- at least I think it's new- meaning for a familiar word. Por ahí, este sentido de 'barter' está en pañales...

The one dictionary where I did find this sense included, the Collins, is one featured at wordreference.com, a placement that could favor its slow (or maybe not so slow) spread. Once I saw this, I was almost sure that this new, 'insurgent' use of the word would appear on urbandictionary.com, but as it happens, it doesn't.

My conclusion from the passage provided, and on the basis of how predominant - almost hegemonic - the familiar meaning (acquiring goods or services by exchange for other goods or services, rather than for money) is, is that absent further information it makes the most sense to go with 'trueque' or equivalent.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2013-12-18 22:35:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The case against interpreting 'barter' as regateo is even stronger than I thought: for, it pains me to confess, I didn't read the one (apparently) dissenting definition, that of the Collins, carefully enough. What it actually says, for the verb, is: "1. to trade (goods, services, etc) in exchange for other goods, services, etc, rather than for money: the refugees bartered for food
2. ( intr ) to haggle over the terms of such an exchange; bargain."
Note well: the second definition states, "to haggle over the terms of such an exchange" by which is meant the non-monetary exchange that is definition 1.

Pablo Julián Davis
Native speaker of:

Spanish,

English
PRO pts in category: 24

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barter

Spanish translation: canjear / hacer un canje

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