Past Perfect with Before

English translation: ... before all the sales staff had arrived

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:Past Perfect with Before
Selected answer:... before all the sales staff had arrived
Entered by: B D Finch

08:52 Mar 29, 2016
English language (monolingual) [Non-PRO]
Linguistics / Grammar Issues
English term or phrase: Past Perfect with Before
There is a sentence in Personal Study Book for Business Benchmark by Guy Brook-Hart (page 23):

6. The meeting started before all the sales staff ................ (arrive).

There are two options given in the key to this exercise: had arrived/arrived.

While there is no argument concerning the Simple Past, I find it difficult to explain the use of Past Perfect in this context. I would be more at ease to say The meeting had started before all the staff arrived....
Sterk
Ukraine
Local time: 20:04
... before all the sales staff had arrived
Explanation:
The meeting started before all the sales staff ................ (arrive).

There are two options given in the key to this exercise: had arrived/arrived.

The past perfect is used here both to show the order of occurrence of two past events, and to indicate that all the sales staff did, indeed, arrive subsequently. The sentence is constructed in a way that puts the emphasis on the organisation of the meeting, which was not delayed to wait for the sales staff. This construction would be used e.g. if one wanted to criticise the organisers of the meeting for not waiting.

You suggest an alternative: "The meeting had started before all the [sales] staff arrived." This puts the emphasis on the staff who missed the beginning of the meeting and would be used e.g. if the sales staff were being criticised for their lateness.
Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 19:04
Grading comment
It's all so tricky. Thank you anyway.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
4 +5had arrived
Jack Doughty
4 +1... before all the sales staff had arrived
B D Finch


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
past perfect with before
had arrived


Explanation:
The meeting started before all the staff had arrived. I'm not a grammarian, haven't had a lesson in English grammar since 1950, but I'm sure it should be Past Perfect here.

Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:04
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 197

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christine Andersen
47 mins
  -> Thank you.

agree  Edith Kelly
56 mins
  -> Thank you.

agree  Yasutomo Kanazawa
2 hrs
  -> Тhank you.

agree  Tina Vonhof (X)
5 hrs
  -> Thank you.

agree  acetran
1 day 1 hr
  -> Thank you.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
past perfect with before
... before all the sales staff had arrived


Explanation:
The meeting started before all the sales staff ................ (arrive).

There are two options given in the key to this exercise: had arrived/arrived.

The past perfect is used here both to show the order of occurrence of two past events, and to indicate that all the sales staff did, indeed, arrive subsequently. The sentence is constructed in a way that puts the emphasis on the organisation of the meeting, which was not delayed to wait for the sales staff. This construction would be used e.g. if one wanted to criticise the organisers of the meeting for not waiting.

You suggest an alternative: "The meeting had started before all the [sales] staff arrived." This puts the emphasis on the staff who missed the beginning of the meeting and would be used e.g. if the sales staff were being criticised for their lateness.

B D Finch
France
Local time: 19:04
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 40
Grading comment
It's all so tricky. Thank you anyway.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Sheila Wilson: A good example of how emphasis shifts in two equally correct sentences
1 day 7 hrs
  -> Thanks Sheila
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