grounding out

English translation: to short out HT voltage to ground (earth) [so no spark is produced]

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:grounding out spark
Selected answer:to short out HT voltage to ground (earth) [so no spark is produced]
Entered by: Tony M

19:28 May 20, 2009
English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Petroleum Eng/Sci / Burner
English term or phrase: grounding out
Could you explain, what is going on when:
Ignition electrodes cracked and grounding out spark
OR
Ignition lead wire defective and grounding spark out

grounding out spark = to produce sparks or to not produce sparks or sparkling hardly or excessively?
Or it is something else?
Alexander Taguiltsev
Russian Federation
Local time: 07:35
to NOT produce sparks
Explanation:
The spark is created by a high voltage; if something along the line shorts this high voltage line to earth (= ground in the US), then the voltage will not reach the igniter as intended, and hence there will be no spark.

grounding out = shorting out to ground

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Note added at 1 heure (2009-05-20 20:49:17 GMT)
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In fact, such short-circuits are often only partial — with the sorts of high voltages usually involved, it is more a case of leakage paths, which drain away some of the ignition energy, so the spark is weaker than it should be.

Just the same sort of thing that happens with the spark plugs in your car engine, if they get dirty or fouled up.

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Note added at 17 heures (2009-05-21 13:05:08 GMT)
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This is a typical case where mere uninformed reliance on what can be found on the Internet can be to say the least misleading — and in any case, is not match for personal, professional, hands-on experience.

I have spent so many years working in this field, I do know what I'm talking about — and I am also very familiar with the sometimes tiresomely quirky language used by engineers between themselves.

'grounding out a spark' (or anything else for that matter) means shorting it to ground [= earth] in such a way that it cannot take place.

Of course, strictly speaking, you can't 'ground out' a spark anyway; you can only ground out the voltage that would have produced the spark — had it not been shorted out to ground instead!

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Note added at 17 heures (2009-05-21 13:08:56 GMT)
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I do wish others would read the question thoroughly before being so hasty to disagree.
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 05:35
Grading comment
Thank you!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
4 +1producing sparks because of a short circuit
Kathryn Litherland
5Shorting to ground
Gary D
5to NOT produce sparks
Tony M


  

Answers


24 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
producing sparks because of a short circuit


Explanation:
That's how I interpret it--it is producing sparks because it is "grounding out"--it has a short circuit and some of the current is leaking out to ground. (ground/ing = earth/ing in UK English)

Kathryn Litherland
United States
Local time: 00:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
Notes to answerer
Asker: I see, it is short circuit to ground then...


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  jccantrell: Yep, making contact with ground potential while the wire is live (i.e., carrying voltage).
46 mins

disagree  Tony M: Sorry, but you've got that the wrong way round: shorting to earth, yes; but the effect is NO sparks
54 mins
  -> Thanks, Tony, your answer is very helpful!

neutral  B D Finch: As Tony says, no sparks.
1 hr

agree  Gary D: Gorunding out (SHORTING) HT leads, always spark to ground
14 hrs
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15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Shorting to ground


Explanation:
Generally you have a + Positive and a - negative and the negative is the ground on a DC circuit. (AC is different)

When something is grounding out or if you use the correct term "Shorting out" or "Shorting to Ground" it is when the positive side is taking a shorter path to ground (negative) than its intended course.

There can be a spark involved and generally there is, just before it blows the fuse. Most cars catch on fire after an accident from a wire or the battery shorting out (grounding out).

Ignition electrodes?? I believe you are talking about "spark plugs" or a spark igniter / electrode for a gas burner maybe even Glow plugs for Diesel and kerosene. (Glow plugs do not spark)

Spark plugs have a porcelain outer insulator and if it is cracked, the high voltage current will take the easiest path to ground (short) and not spark across the spark gap. The center pole in the firing side of a spark plug is called the electrode.
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/spark_plugs/index.asp?...

There is still a spark, it is just not going to fire in the intended place. Usually there is about 120,000 volts from the coil pack running through the lead to the firing gap on the spark plug.

They need high voltages because they need a big spark and if it is in an engine, compression would kill of any small low voltage spark.

When the lead is grounding, it is usually because there is a break in the lead or too high a resistance in the lead and the 120,000V looks for the easiest path to ground.

They call Spark plug leads, ignition leads - leads and not wires.

"Ignition lead wire defective and grounding spark out"

Should be "Ignition lead defective and grounding spark out"
(saying a "lead wire" is like saying "wire wire"
They use the term lead, as they carry very high Voltages in heavy insulation.

http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/spark_plugs_198595-1.html

If you have a older petrol engine car, lift the bonnet at night in a dark place and you will see sparks jumping across the plug leads to metal parts of the engine. Looks a bit like a Tesla coil sometimes when the spark plug leads are wet. This is termed the leads shorting out (grounding out.)

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Note added at 16 hrs (2009-05-21 12:25:03 GMT)
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English to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Petroleum Eng/Sci / Burner

Spark plugs , Ignition electrodes, Ignition leads, are used in any aspect of igniting a Petroleum based fuel, including LPG, and natural gas. Also used for igniting Bio Fuels. except compression ignition. Even the space shuttle uses ignition igniters and electrodes for its rockets, all work on a similar principle....... contrary to Tony M's beliefs

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Note added at 17 hrs (2009-05-21 12:30:35 GMT)
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Tony M seems to have removed his reply to me.. so here it is to clarify the above comment.. When you ground a spark, naturally it sparks to ground and not across the intended place, it is still a spark. The spark just doesn't disappear into thin air.
Answerer reply: You are misreading the question; first,
it is not 'ignition leads' as in a car; second, this is
"grounding out the spark", which means 'shorting to ground
so there is no spark' — please read the question properly
before being so hasty with your 'disagree'

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Note added at 17 hrs (2009-05-21 12:50:15 GMT)
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The most references to grounding out I can see are in Baseball when they hit the ball into the ground, lightning grounding out, and when you have a faulty grounding out of a wire, when an appliance doesn't work.

Gary D
Local time: 14:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: I think this is actually what I already said about 14 hrs ago / I think you are being deliberately perverse. There is nothing grammatically wrong with my answer. Your explanation is identical to mine, only the way you choose to interpret it differs.
1 hr
  -> Your answer is "to NOT produce sparks" A bit different to mine and not to grammatically correct. Ignition Leads and Ignition electrodes are carriers of voltage and do not produce anything.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
to NOT produce sparks


Explanation:
The spark is created by a high voltage; if something along the line shorts this high voltage line to earth (= ground in the US), then the voltage will not reach the igniter as intended, and hence there will be no spark.

grounding out = shorting out to ground

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 heure (2009-05-20 20:49:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In fact, such short-circuits are often only partial — with the sorts of high voltages usually involved, it is more a case of leakage paths, which drain away some of the ignition energy, so the spark is weaker than it should be.

Just the same sort of thing that happens with the spark plugs in your car engine, if they get dirty or fouled up.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 heures (2009-05-21 13:05:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is a typical case where mere uninformed reliance on what can be found on the Internet can be to say the least misleading — and in any case, is not match for personal, professional, hands-on experience.

I have spent so many years working in this field, I do know what I'm talking about — and I am also very familiar with the sometimes tiresomely quirky language used by engineers between themselves.

'grounding out a spark' (or anything else for that matter) means shorting it to ground [= earth] in such a way that it cannot take place.

Of course, strictly speaking, you can't 'ground out' a spark anyway; you can only ground out the voltage that would have produced the spark — had it not been shorted out to ground instead!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 heures (2009-05-21 13:08:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I do wish others would read the question thoroughly before being so hasty to disagree.

Tony M
France
Local time: 05:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thank you!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Phong Le
6 hrs
  -> Thanks, Phong Le!

disagree  Gary D: HT leads always have sparks when they short to ground, Grab hold of a faulty lead and see if you don't get a 120,000 volt shock. Petroleum Eng/Sci / Burner/ Ignition electrodes cracked
13 hrs
  -> You are misreading the question; this is referring to "grounding out the spark", which specifically means 'shorting to ground so there is no spark' — please read the question properly before being so hasty with your 'disagree'
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