à l'origine de l'installation

English translation: at the input to the installation

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:à l'origine de l'installation
English translation:at the input to the installation
Entered by: Tony M

18:41 Dec 17, 2020
French to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Electronics / Elect Eng / Building technical survey
French term or phrase: à l'origine de l'installation
Promise of sale. One for an LX specialist perhaps... NB field might be "Engineering: Electricity".

"Le PROMETTANT a fait établir un état de celle-ci par la société XXX DIAGNOSTIC, susnommée répondant aux critères de l’article L 271-6 du Code de la construction et de l'habitation, le 26 mai 2019, annexé.
Les conclusions sont les suivantes :
" L'installation intérieure d'électricité comporte une ou des anomalies.
Anomalies avérées selon les domaines suivants :
x L'appareil général de commande et de protection et de son accessibilité.
x dispositif de protection différentiel à l'origine de l'installation / prise de terre et installation de mise à la tere.
x La liaison équipotentielle et installation électrique adaptes aux conditions particulières des locaux contenant une douche ou une baignoire.
x Matériels électriques présentant des risques de contacts directs avec des éléments sous tension - Protection mécanique des conducteurs.
x Matériels électriques vétustes, inadptés à l'usage."

Yes, it's spelt "mise à la tere" here, sad to say.

My stab at this is "installation's entry point". Would be nice to hear from an LX specialist (you know who you are, Tony ...).
Mpoma
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:57
at the input to the installation
Explanation:
Or even 'on the incoming feed to...' — but I think 'input to...' is better.
The point is, the differential circuit breaker is the boundary between the supply utility's feed and the subscriber's own installation, and thus it is from this point onwards (only) that the surveyor is concerned. Their interest here is usually that the sensitivity of the ELCB (as we used to call them!), whilst perfectly usual, is not atched by the resistance to earth of the installation that follows it.
I have this exact-same problem in my own house!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2020-12-17 21:44:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry for the errors!
For a power utility, we say 'customer' and not 'subscriber' that's only for phones!).
And of course I meant to write "...is not matched by..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2020-12-18 15:40:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here's one of over 3 million Google hits (admittedly, many of those are red herrings!):


IET Forums - Electrical Installation in a multistory building

https://www.theiet.org › Forums › forum › messageview

Feb 9, 2017 — ... fuse or four pole circuit breaker as applicable immediately after of the electricity service meter to control the supply input to the installation."

I think the addition of 'supply' might help, although is possibly not strcitly necessary in the context of this document.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 12 hrs (2020-12-20 07:02:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here is just one example of 'input to the installation' used in a similar context:


Power Quality Issues Part 3 Transients and ... - CAUK.tv
https://cauk.tv › wp-content › uploads › 2019/06 › Pow...

...installation, like the power input to the installation or the primary overcurrent protection device. Such appreciation of likely transient levels can similarly enable ...

Many examples using 'input' do not have the direct colocation with 'at', since there is often another word like 'power' or 'supply' etc. in front of it, which in the present context is implicit and does not need to be added to the source text.
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 09:57
Grading comment
Thanks. IMHO decades of experience and expertise usually trumps "evidence" from google hits. Especially when the reasoning/explanation is rational and clear!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +4at the input to the installation
Tony M
5 +1at the origin of (the) installation
Johannes Gleim


Discussion entries: 12





  

Answers


19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
at the origin of (the) installation


Explanation:
I had to rework my proposal as the answer line was not completed and found a vast number of proofs for my proposal, including that of organisations for standardization and professional bodies for electricians. Moreover, I found only one link for "at the input ..."

"at the origin of the installation" About 2.170.000 results (0,86 seconds)
"at the origin of installation" About 397.000 results (0,87 seconds)
Comparer à :
"at the input to the installation" 1 result (0,96 seconds)

514.15.1 Where an installation includes alternative or additional sources of supply, warning notices shall be affixed at the following locations in the installation:
(i) At the origin of the installation
(ii) At the meter position, if remote from the origin
https://electrical.theiet.org/media/2063/bs-7671-2018-corrig...
(BRITISH STANDARD Requirements for Electrical Installations BS 7671:2018)

The term Ze refers to the external fault loop impedance at the origin of the installation.
https://napitweb.azureedge.net/member-downloads/CP 1 08 P 18...

On TT systems, the protection of persons is ensured by the following measures:

• Protection against indirect contact hazards by RCDs (see Fig. Q7) of medium sensitivity (300 mA) at the origin of installation (incorporated in the incoming supply circuit breaker or, on the incoming feed to the distribution board). …
• When the CB at the origin of installation has no RCD protection, the protection of persons shall be ensured by double or reinforced insulation on all circuits upstream of the first RCDs.
https://www.electrical-installation.org/enwiki/Residential_e...

International standard IEC 60364 distinguishes three families of earthing arrangements, using the two-letter codes TN, TT, and IT.
The first letter indicates the connection between earth and the power-supply equipment (generator or transformer):
:
"T" - Direct connection of a point with earth
"N" - Direct connection to neutral at the origin of installation, which is connected to the earth
https://www2.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=2...

”T” – Direct connection of a point with earth
”N” – Direct connection to neutral at the origin of installation, which is connected to the earth
https://www.eeweb.com/grounding-system-for-low-voltage-syste...

CAT IV offers the ultimate overvoltage protection level for those working at the origin of installation or utility level works. This goes all the way until before the circuit breakers in the building.
https://www.matsolutions.com/Blog/tabid/275/entryid/1059/ele...

Polarity testing – all circuit polarity must be tested and verified at the origin of installationcovering distribution boards and socket outlets, and extremity of the radial circuit. Lighting circuits, fuses, and single-pole switches must all be connected in the phase conductor
https://emergencyelectricianlondon365.co.uk/guide-to-electri...

Why is it necessary to verify the value of prospective fault current at the origin of an electrical installation ?
To ensure the rated breaking capacity of the main switch and overcurrent devices are capable of breaking the prospective fault current level
https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/useful-informatio...

OCPD is the primary protector. RCD is an additional Protector. Earthing at the origin of installation is in the scope of power supplier. RCD required for load more than 2 KW (1 KW in future)
https://eicelectricityodisha.nic.in/DownloadForm/IS732 & IS3...

Je pense que ça suffit.

Donc la traduction :

Dispositif différentiel résiduel à l'origine de l'installation / prise de terre et installation de mise à la terre.
=>
Differential protection device or Residual Current Device (RCD) at the origin of installation / earthing system and earthing system.

En supposant qu'il s'agisse d'un immeuble à appartements, l'alimentation électrique est agencée de manière à ce que la boite de branchement principale avec les fusibles principaux soit connectée au réseau d'alimentation électrique, puis dispose d'un tableau de distribution principal avec les compteurs individuels et les branches vers les différents appartements, qui mènent chacun à une boite à fusibles. Le tableau de distribution principal contient également les principaux fusibles des différents appartements une barre de liaison équipotentielle à laquelle tous les conducteurs de protection sont raccordés. Dans la boîte de fusibles, surtout, les fusibles ou disjoncteurs, les coupe-circuits automatique et les disjoncteurs différentiels. Le tableau de distribution principal contient également les principaux fusibles des différents appartements et une barre de liaison équipotentielle à laquelle tous les conducteurs de protection sont raccordés. Dans la boîte à fusibles, surtout, les fusibles ou les disjoncteurs automatiques et les disjoncteurs différentiels (DDR). Si besoin est, des sous-tableaux de distribution supplémentaires avec des DDR peuvent être installés dans des pièces individuelles comme les bains. Chaque tableau de distribution représente une "origine" pour les installations qu'il fournit, même si cela est si rarement dit.

A distribution board (also known as panelboard, breaker panel, or electric panel) is a component of an electricity supply system that divides an electrical power feed into subsidiary circuits, while providing a protective fuse or circuit breaker for each circuit in a common enclosure. Normally, a main switch, and in recent boards, one or more residual-current devices (RCD) or residual current breakers with overcurrent protection (RCBO), are also incorporated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_board

Note : le terme « dispositif de protection différentiel » n’est pas approprié pour une DDR. Il désigne un dispositif industriel protégeant les générateurs, le réseau de distribution et les transformateurs associés :

Une protection différentielle est une protection électrique qui consiste à comparer le courant entrant et le courant sortant d'un appareil. Si les deux sont différents, la protection conclut à une fuite à l'intérieur de l'appareil et commande son retrait du réseau électrique, on parle de « déclenchement ». La protection différentielle est une protection très répandue. Elle sert à protéger en particulier les jeux de barres, les générateurs et les transformateurs.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_différentielle

The SIPROTEC 7UT85 transformer differential protection device has been designed specifically for the protection of two-winding transformers (2 sides). It is the main protection for the transformer and contains many other protection and monitoring functions.
https://new.siemens.com/global/en/products/energy/energy-aut...

Note : Ces systèmes sont similaires à un DDR (RCD en anglais) ci-dessous, mais il compare les côtés primaire et secondaire des transformateurs. Pour l'installation domestique, un autre terme est utilisé, « Dispositif de courant Résiduel ou Dispositif Différentiel à courant Résiduel DDR », qui compare les courants amont et aval au lieu de bobines du transformateur.

Dispositif de protection différentiel à l’origine de l’installation
Ce dispositif permet de protéger les personnes contre les risques de choc électrique lors d’un défaut d’isolement sur un matériel électrique
https://ag-cdn-production.azureedge.net/produits/documents/8...

Vérification et test de la conformité d'un dispositif différentiel (DDR)
:
Le Dispositif Différentiel à courant Résiduel DDR doit déclencher dans un temps inférieur à celui préconisé par la norme (EN 61008 Interrupteur différentiel et EN 61009 disjoncteur différentiel) :
https://electrotoile.eu/controle_ddr.php

Le disjoncteur différentiel
Toute installation alimentée par le réseau EDF doit être protégée par un dispositif différentiel résiduel placé à l’origine de l’installation.
Cette solution présente l’inconvénient de couper toute l’installation en cas de défaut. Pour y remédier, on distingue les appareils de:-moyenne sensibilité: 650, 500, 300, 100 mA-haute sensibilité: 30, 12, 6 mA
http://formation-energetique.fr/images/LPChesnois/63le_disjo...

A residual-current device (RCD), residual-current circuit breaker (RCCB), or ground-fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) is a device that quickly breaks an electrical circuit to prevent serious harm from an ongoing electric shock.
:
RCDs operate by measuring the current balance between two conductors using a differential current transformer. This measures the difference between current flowing through the live conductor and that returning through the neutral conductor. If these do not sum to zero, there is a leakage of current to somewhere else (to earth/ground or to another circuit), and the device will open its contacts.
:
According to the NF C15-100 regulation (1911 -> 2002), a general RCD not exceeding 100 to 300 mA at the top of the installation. Plus, in rooms where there is water or high power or sensible equipment (Bathrooms, kitchen, computers, etc.) each plug has to be protected with a RCD not exceeding 30 ma.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device


Johannes Gleim
Local time: 09:57
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 165

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: As I said before, this is not really idiomatic in EN, and many examples actually derive from too-literally translated sources.
28 mins
  -> BSI, Napit, IET, Emergency365, ElectriciansForums are UK. EEWeb, Matsolution are US. EI Wiki founded by Schneider Electric. All are idiomatic and professional.

neutral  philgoddard: I don't disagree with this, but you've given way too many references, many of them not relevant, and we have one good answer already.
6 hrs
  -> I found 'cooling water at the input to the installation' 1 Ghit, https://patents.justia.com/patent/4098495 Tony added 'supply input to the installation' 1 Ghit, too. Your proposal 'entry point' is quite better, refering to the service entry box.

agree  SafeTex: either "entry point" or this suggestion.
1 day 9 hrs
  -> Thank you!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
at the input to the installation


Explanation:
Or even 'on the incoming feed to...' — but I think 'input to...' is better.
The point is, the differential circuit breaker is the boundary between the supply utility's feed and the subscriber's own installation, and thus it is from this point onwards (only) that the surveyor is concerned. Their interest here is usually that the sensitivity of the ELCB (as we used to call them!), whilst perfectly usual, is not atched by the resistance to earth of the installation that follows it.
I have this exact-same problem in my own house!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2020-12-17 21:44:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry for the errors!
For a power utility, we say 'customer' and not 'subscriber' that's only for phones!).
And of course I meant to write "...is not matched by..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2020-12-18 15:40:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here's one of over 3 million Google hits (admittedly, many of those are red herrings!):


IET Forums - Electrical Installation in a multistory building

https://www.theiet.org › Forums › forum › messageview

Feb 9, 2017 — ... fuse or four pole circuit breaker as applicable immediately after of the electricity service meter to control the supply input to the installation."

I think the addition of 'supply' might help, although is possibly not strcitly necessary in the context of this document.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 12 hrs (2020-12-20 07:02:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here is just one example of 'input to the installation' used in a similar context:


Power Quality Issues Part 3 Transients and ... - CAUK.tv
https://cauk.tv › wp-content › uploads › 2019/06 › Pow...

...installation, like the power input to the installation or the primary overcurrent protection device. Such appreciation of likely transient levels can similarly enable ...

Many examples using 'input' do not have the direct colocation with 'at', since there is often another word like 'power' or 'supply' etc. in front of it, which in the present context is implicit and does not need to be added to the source text.

Tony M
France
Local time: 09:57
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 2116
Grading comment
Thanks. IMHO decades of experience and expertise usually trumps "evidence" from google hits. Especially when the reasoning/explanation is rational and clear!
Notes to answerer
Asker: I mean of course "trump" - 3rd personal pl., dangnabbit!

Asker: ... or even "3rd person pl.". Sigh.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: I think the asker's "entry point" is fine, too.
41 mins
  -> Thanks, Phil! I'm afraid I can't agree, on technical grounds: 'entry point' sounds more like where the cable physically enters the building, which may not necessarily be the same point we are concerned with here.

neutral  Johannes Gleim: I excuse your errors, would you mind to excuse my copy error, not having pasted the full translation into the answer line? // I did not comment your "input to the installation", even I found it strange. And "1 Ghit" confirmed my suspicion.
1 hr
  -> Sadly no, because even when we eventually find the needle in the haystack, I believe your word-for-word translation is not idiomatic in EN.

agree  EirTranslations
13 hrs
  -> Thanks, E/T!

agree  Kim Metzger
19 hrs
  -> Thanks a lot, Kim! I'm glad someone understands.

agree  Daryo
1 day 21 hrs
  -> Thanks, Daryo!
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