motif impropre

English translation: improper grounds; inadmissible grounds; incorrect grounds; unacceptable basis; etc. (q.v.)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	motif impropre
English translation:	improper grounds; inadmissible grounds; incorrect grounds; unacceptable basis; etc. (q.v.)
Entered by:	TechLawDC

12:02 Dec 8, 2020

French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)

French term or phrase: motif impropre

Court of Cassation shenanigans: not liking, indeed rebuking, as it is wont to do, an appeal judgment.

"Par un arrêt du 1 novembre 2017, la Cour de cassation a exercé sa censure, aux motifs que :

« l'arrêt retient que les conclusions 12 juin 2015 avaient pour objet unique d'interrompre le délai de péremption et non de poursuivre l'instance puisque la seule demande qui y était formulée était une demande de sursis à statuer et que la radiation ayant été prononcée parce que les parties ne souhaitaient pas que le litige soit jugé avant la multitude d'autres recours qu'ils avaient intentés, la demande de réinscription n'avait pas pour objet de poursuivre l'instance mais seulement de faire échec à la péremption ;

En statuant ainsi alors qu'une demande de sursis à statuer est susceptible de constituer une diligence interruptive du délai de péremption, la cour d'appel, qui s'est déterminée par un motif impropre relatif à la radiation, a violé l'article 386 du code de procédure civile »."

The trouble is that impropre could be many things: "improper", "unfit", "inappropriate", "incorrect", "insufficient" possibly. Or possibly something quite specific like "unlawful" ...

Mpoma KudoZ activity Questions: 1026 (3 open) (91 closed without grading) Answers: 384 United Kingdom
Local time: 23:17

improper grounds; inadmissible grounds; incorrect grounds; unacceptable basis; etc. (q.v.)

Explanation:
The Court of Appeals, which dismissed [the Appeal] based on improper grounds
Alternative 1: … inadmissible grounds.
Alternative 2: … incorrect grounds.
Alternative 3: The Court of Appeals, which failed to state an acceptable basis for its dismissal [of the Appeal],
Alternative 4: The Court of Appeals, in failing to state an acceptable basis for its dismissal [of the Appeal],

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Note added at 17 mins (2020-12-08 12:20:32 GMT)
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The Court of Appeals, which dismissed [the Appeal] based on improper grounds (for the dismissal)
Alternative 1: … inadmissible grounds (for the dismissal).
Alternative 2: … incorrect grounds (for the dismissal).

Selected response from:

TechLawDC
United States
Local time: 18:17

Grading comment

Thanks
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3 +3

improper grounds; inadmissible grounds; incorrect grounds; unacceptable basis; etc. (q.v.)

TechLawDC

4 +1

erroneous grounds

Nikki Scott-Despaigne

3 +1

erred in law

AllegroTrans

4 -1

improper motive

Bokani Hart

decision taken on inappropriate grounds

Daryo

unreasonable ruling or decision

Lisa Rosengard

Summary of reference entries provided

This should help

AllegroTrans

Discussion entries: 3

Answers

17 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

erred in law

Explanation:
I think in English court speak, this would be that the lower court "erred in law" - a phrase consistently used by judges

uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com › ...
25 Jun 2020 — Employment tribunal erred in law by focusing on employer's decision-making process when considering if discrimination arising from disability ...

Grounds of appeal—appealing a finding of fact | Legal ...
www.lexisnexis.co.uk › legal › guidance › grounds-of-ap...
... trial judge had erred in law. For detailed analysis, see News Analysis: Suspension does not breach the implied term of trust and confidence provided employer ...

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:17
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 1355

Notes to answerer

Asker: Aha... excellent. Just as I said in reply to your reference entry, glossing over whether the appeal court did actually reach the right solution.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

neutral

Carol Gullidge: I don't see that this is relevant to this particular case :(

25 mins

-> I see the Fr expressiion as a way of saying precisely this and a literal translation as not encapsulating the true meaning at all

agree

philgoddard: I think this is fine. It gave the wrong reason for its decision.

1 hr

-> Yes, but on grounds of law since the French Court of Cassation can only rule on issues of law

agree

Daryo: could work, but then you would need to reshuffle the sentence

10 hrs

-> thanks

neutral

Nikki Scott-Despaigne: "erroneous grounds" would be my take here. I suggest that it explains the French approach.

23 hrs

disagree

Eliza Hall: This strays too far from the original. There are FR terms for legal error/error of law/etc., but this isn't one of them. Deciding a case on improper grounds is legal error, but that's not what the FR *says.*

1 day 4 hrs

10 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

improper grounds; inadmissible grounds; incorrect grounds; unacceptable basis; etc. (q.v.)

TechLawDC
United States
Local time: 18:17
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 52

Grading comment

Thanks

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

neutral

AllegroTrans: All very well to quote alternatives used by a US court, but what is needed here is the precise meaning of asker's term as used by the Cour de Cassation in France

2 mins

-> What a FR author would say in English is irrelevant. As to UK English, I did not investigate the alternatives such as your "erred in law", a fortiori since my answer was submitted before yours. Ditto re "striking out" which I've never seen anywhere.

agree

Carol Gullidge: improper/inadmissable grounds looks good to me; and I assumed this was meant to be a translation, not a précis/explanation in EN (see AT's msg above)

25 mins

neutral

Daryo: which one is supposed to be the right one for this ST?

7 hrs

neutral

Nikki Scott-Despaigne: I suggest "erroneous grounds". "Improper" implies morality; the specific notion of "admissibility" does not apply.

23 hrs

agree

Becca George

1 day 1 hr

agree

Eliza Hall: Improper grounds or improper basis. I disagree w/Nikki; in legal EN, "improper" means procedurally or legally improper. It hasn't got moral implications.

1 day 4 hrs

32 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

improper motive

Explanation:
See...

https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/1095144.pdf?refreqid=excels...

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/235289904.pdf

https://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/independ...

https://www.employmentlawworldview.com/employer-representati...

Bokani Hart
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:17
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English

Notes to answerer

Asker: "improper motive"? Sounds like something Sid James might have in Carry On Up The Bailey

Asker: "improper motive"? Sounds like something Judge Sid James might have in Carry On Up The Bailey when he orders Babs Windsor to be bound over in his Chambers... oo-er.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Carol Gullidge: I'd also go with this - as long as it isn't synonymous with malicious intent. Btw, I (and presumably I'm not the only one) can no longer access JSTOR, so the actual article would be more helpful than just the link/ I guess you'd have had to copy it out...

17 mins

-> Thanks Carol. I've got a pdf copy of the JSTOR article that I can share, but how? As part of a note?

disagree

Daryo: in the last 3 "references" the literal would-be translation "motive" can be found, but is used ***in a meaning that has nothing to do with*** "les motifs d'une décision de justice".

6 hrs

neutral

AllegroTrans: Sounds like a moral judgement

1 day 34 mins

disagree

Eliza Hall: Courts don't have "motives" in legal English.

1 day 4 hrs

agree

Lisa Rosengard: In normal English motives are the reasons or incentives for causing an action.

1 day 10 hrs

disagree

Adrian MM.: 'a literal translation is usually a wrong one'

2 days 22 hrs

8 hrs confidence:

un motif impropre relatif à la radiation decision taken on inappropriate grounds

Explanation:
..

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:17
Native speaker of:

Serbian,

French
PRO pts in category: 196

1 day 2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

erroneous grounds

Explanation:
A suggestion based on what are ordinary legal terms that, to my way of thinking, provide an accurate representation of the French meaning.

I think it is important to avoid "improper" or "inappropriate" as they have moral connotations. I would also avoid "motive" as it falls short of the French meaning in this context.

When push comes to shove, the French simply means that the basis was wrong.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 00:17
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 451

1 day 7 hrs confidence:

unreasonable ruling or decision

Explanation:
The groundings or reasons for a ruling or a decision are described as unacceptable or unreasonable.

Example sentence(s):

S'est déterminé par un motif impropre relatif à la radiation qui a violé l'article du code de procédure civile.
It was determined by an unreasonable ruling or decision in relation to a cancellation, and which has not respected the civil code of procedural practice.

Lisa Rosengard
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:17
Native speaker of: English

Reference comments

10 mins peer agreement (net): +1

Reference: This should help

Reference information:
Posté(e) le 3 octobre 2018 (modifié)

Bonjour,

Après multiples recherches juridiques je ne parviens pas à comprendre la formule "...par des motifs impropres (à établir en quoi/à justifier/à caractériser/etc)..la cour d'appel n'a pas donné de base légale à sa décision".

Qu'entend la cour de cassation pas "motifs impropres s'il vous plaît ?

Je vous remercie par avance,

étudiante en droit.

Stéphane Boudin

Posté(e) le 3 octobre 2018

Bonjour,

En règle générale, cela veut dire que la Cour d'Appel est parvenue à la bonne solution du litige (selon la Cour de Cassation) mais potentiellement sur un mauvais fondement juridique que critique la Cour de Cassation.

Dans ces conditions, soit elle rejette le pourvoi tout en énonçant la bonne règle juridique applicable, soit elle casse l'arrêt d'appel tout en énonçant la bonne règle juridique applicable, et suivant les spécificités de l'affaire, elle casse sans renvoi ou avec renvoi à une autre Cour d'Appel.

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Note added at 40 mins (2020-12-08 12:43:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Asker; bearing in minfd that the Cour de Cassation can ONLY strike down lower court decisions in grounds of law, I would think "motif impropre" simply means "erred in law", without further elaboration, albeit in your text the judgment goes on to cite which Article of the French CPC is involved.

https://forum-juridique.net-iris.fr/topic/314642-motifs-impropres/

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 1355

Note to reference poster

Asker: Very useful, thanks. The right solution but the wrong way... I wouldn't have surmised that! But I wonder if it *always* means that the right solution was reached? I wonder if it means that here? Faute de mieux, I'd like to find a nice, obscure way of translating, which merrily glosses over such questions.

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motif impropre

English translation: improper grounds; inadmissible grounds; incorrect grounds; unacceptable basis; etc. (q.v.)

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motif impropre

English translation: improper grounds; inadmissible grounds; incorrect grounds; unacceptable basis; etc. (q.v.)

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