en filigrane de

English translation: with undertones/undercurrents of

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:en filigrane de
English translation:with undertones/undercurrents of
Entered by: Yvonne Gallagher

14:48 Nov 28, 2019
French to English translations [PRO]
Music
French term or phrase: en filigrane de
Could anyone please help me understand the term 'en filigrane de'? It's in a magazine article focusing on the popularity of French-language music which I used as part of my masters dissertation, I ended up translating it literally as 'filigree' because I couldn't find a better translation but it was incorrect. I'm copying and pasting it in context below.

"On assiste alors, à l’aube des années 1980, à une réelle évolution qui laisse entrevoir une musique plus industrielle, plus cyclique, inspirée de la pop, du funk et de la soul. Cette nouvelle esthétique, intimement liée à une culture de la fête et de la danse, forme un berceau idéal pour la digne héritière du disco : la house music. C’est cette même musique qui se développera au seuil du XXIe siècle, en filigrane des tubes planétaires de Madonna ou des Daft Punk."

Any suggestions would be appreciated! I plan on sending a revised version to the source-text publishers.
Emma Dovey
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:53
with undertones of (house music)
Explanation:
I got inspired by the discussion to think of this, and it keeps the musical reference

undertones of house music in the big/major hits of Madonna and Daft Punk

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/undertone

or even perhaps undercurrent

Selected response from:

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 20:53
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +4with undertones of (house music)
Yvonne Gallagher
4 +3runs through
Wolf Draeger
5 +1underpinning
Philippa Smith


Discussion entries: 12





  

Answers


11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
underpinning


Explanation:
It's saying that house music provides the background to the big pop hits mentioned - that even though the hits aren't classified as house, that's what thy are influenced by/draw on. I think "underpinning" works well to get the idea across.

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Note added at 36 mins (2019-11-28 15:25:03 GMT)
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Based on my discussion with Tony, I suggest an alternative: "a discreet influence" which is not as strong and so could get across the idea of something very much in the background....

Philippa Smith
Local time: 21:53
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: As I suggested in the discussion; though I do think this is a little bit risky, as it almost turns the sense round... Yes, but 'underpinning' is more like the paper than the watermark; and also suggest 'étayer', not the sense here.
5 mins
  -> Ta! Yes, I answered you in the discussion. I think it works very well in this context, esp. as the underpinnings of something are invisible, like a literal "filigrane".

neutral  ormiston: Underpinning suggests in some way supporting it, as Tony says
42 mins
  -> That's why I added a 2nd proposal. And underpinning has an abstract sense too, imho.

agree  Eliza Hall: I like this.
23 hrs
  -> Thanks Eliza!
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
with undertones of (house music)


Explanation:
I got inspired by the discussion to think of this, and it keeps the musical reference

undertones of house music in the big/major hits of Madonna and Daft Punk

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/undertone

or even perhaps undercurrent



Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 20:53
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  SafeTex: Undercurrents is super so I just can't give an agree to "undertones". But if you posted it as a second suggestion...
24 mins
  -> You seem to have a thing for posting twice? it's discouraged and no need for it as heading can easily be changed for glossary if chosen. Already bolded anyway> here again UNDERCURRENTS

agree  ormiston: I also like UNDERCURRENTS
15 hrs
  -> Many thanks:-)

agree  Tony M: I think this is ideal, if it can be worked in using a formulation as you suggest.
19 hrs
  -> Thanks:-) I actually like the "underscoring" of the previous Kudoz query as well as it keeps a musical ref.

agree  Stephanie Benoist
2 days 44 mins
  -> Many thanks:-)

agree  Michael Confais (X)
3 days 1 hr
  -> Many thanks:-)
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
runs through


Explanation:
The problem is that en filigrane is used a bit carelessly here. Madonna's house tracks of the 90s are just that—house music—and Daft Punk IS French house music. There's nothing subtle or implicit in the influence of house on either artist at the time, no reading between the lines, no picking up strains of house in the arrangement or between notes or beats. House is in the foreground and background and in your face.

To avoid confusion, I'd go with something along the lines of "runs through" which is close enough to the FR but stronger and more accurate. Or a synonym like "pervade" or "permeate" and so on.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-11-28 20:00:51 GMT)
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If you want a musical metaphor, you could use "set the tone" for Madonna's 90s house hits and then "run through" for Daft Punk (not that you have to have two terms in EN).

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Note added at 19 hrs (2019-11-29 10:47:42 GMT)
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As to how far a translation can deviate from the source, it often depends on what purpose or function both texts are meant to serve. In this case, the magazine article is intended to inform and entertain the reader and there's no reason why the translation mustn't do likewise, meaning any inaccuracies in the source can and should be corrected, or at the very least flagged before publishing.

Also, en filigrane here is careless but not outright wrong. In fact, "run through" is one of the translations given in my Collins-Robert. You have to compare what the writer said to what they meant to say and see if the words and meaning match. As we all know from experience, that's not always the case. The translator must then interpret the meaning based on the subject matter and context and everything else they know or can find out on the topic.

Applying the softer or more usual figurative meaning of en filigrane here to say for example that Daft Punk's music has echoes or traces of house is like saying that Beethoven's symphonies have a classical or orchestral feel to them or that the Rolling Stones are tinged with rock or that if you listen carefully you can pick out the jazz tunes in Miles Davis...

Supposedly the writer reached for a literary expression and didn't stop to consider whether it was suitable to the text. It's careless and all too common. If the translation reproduces the error, it lets down the reader and in this case makes the writer look like a fool. Not cool.

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Note added at 20 hrs (2019-11-29 10:49:48 GMT)
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Grr, messed up some tags in my last note, not meant to be all in italics, sorry.

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Note added at 20 hrs (2019-11-29 11:18:38 GMT)
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Not sure why I have a bee in my bonnet, the tone of my answer is a bit snippy. Apologies if any feathers ruffled, no disrespect meant (and sorry again for the all-italics...).

Example sentence(s):
  • It came into its own in the 90s, running through chart-busting hits by Madonna and the music of Daft Punk.

    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_music#21st_century
    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_house
Wolf Draeger
South Africa
Local time: 21:53
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Cyril Tollari: That's my understanding. En filigrane is not used properly here.
14 hrs
  -> Thanks, Cyril.

neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: You have to translate what the author has written, not what you think they should have said/Don't agree with you, this is reproduced in an MA dissertation so not up to Asker to rewrite it. Presumably author had some idea of what the music was about...
14 hrs
  -> No; see my note.

agree  Tony M
17 hrs
  -> Thanks, Tony.

agree  Eliza Hall
19 hrs
  -> Thanks, Eliza.
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