officiers domaniaux

English translation: Estate stewards

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:officiers domaniaux
English translation:Estate stewards
Entered by: Francis Marche

16:05 Apr 24, 2014
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Religion / History/religion: about a cathedral in Belgium
French term or phrase: officiers domaniaux
"Fondé en xxxx – il fêtera son xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx centenaire en xxxx –, le chapitre cathédral réunit au Moyen âge jusqu’à 43 chanoines. Il était composé de clercs qui, initialement, menaient une vie commune. Ils étaient chargés de célébrer l’office quotidien et d’administrer la cathédrale, aidés en cela, jusqu’à la Révolution française, par un personnel laïque et ecclésiastique riche de plusieurs centaines de membres : chapelains, vicaires, clochemans (sonneurs de cloche), ***officiers domaniaux***, etc."

My initial thought was estate, but as far as I know the cathedral has no land attached to it.

See also http://www.wordreference.com/fren/domanial , which suggests national or state, but which doesn't seem like a good fit here.
Conor McAuley
France
Local time: 09:19
Estate stewards
Explanation:
see as reference Everyday Life in Medieval England
By Christopher Dye
Selected response from:

Francis Marche
France
Local time: 09:19
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2Estate stewards
Francis Marche
5officials who oversaw the cathedral's lands
Christopher Crockett
Summary of reference entries provided
0fficiers Domaniaux du Roy
Daryo

Discussion entries: 10





  

Answers


34 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Estate stewards


Explanation:
see as reference Everyday Life in Medieval England
By Christopher Dye

Francis Marche
France
Local time: 09:19
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christopher Crockett: That's a good term --or "stewards of the cathedral's lands/estates." The text is not clear whether or not these guys were laymen or clerics, but if the latter, then perhaps what is meant is something like the Provosts I talk about in my answer.
19 mins
  -> Thanks. You cast an interest light on the subject in your notes.

agree  philgoddard: Good idea.
1 hr
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

50 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
officials who oversaw the cathedral's lands


Explanation:
I've actually not seen this term, but am rather certain as to what it means.

All cathedrals --as well as abbeys, collegial churches, etc.-- were great landowners. By the end of the Middle Ages the Church, collectively, was by far the largest landowner in France.

The management of this valuable source of revenue --the "domains" of the church-- of course required quite a few officers, usually beginning with the "provosts" (prévo^ts) of the cathedral chapter.

Every cathedral chapter was a bit different in its organization and customs --the setup at Chartres is the one I know best.

Just as, for ecclesiastical administrative purposes, the diocese was divided up into multiple Archdeaconries, it was also divided up into several prévo^tés, each the responsibility of a provost.

There the 5 or 6 (I forget how many there were) provosts were lower ranking "Dignataires" of the chapter --"officiers," if you will-- and each oversaw the land in their own part of the diocese.

Since they were essentially financial officers, and the possibilities for corruption were always present, at Chartres there had to be a major shakeup in the number and size of the prévotés in the mid-1190s, when the building of the new cathedral after the 1194 fire put a special financial strain on the Chapter.

While most chapters had to have had some analogous set up, and in most the major overseers of the management of the land were probably called Provosts, as I say, every chapter was a bit different, and I would hesitate to give the guys in your diocese this title unless I knew that was indeed the case.

If it was, then your officiers domaniaux should be called, in English, Provosts --though you should add some further explanation, like "the Provosts, who oversaw the domains of the cathedral."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 57 mins (2014-04-24 17:03:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Btw, you are, technically, right that "the cathedral had no land attached to it."

But that was because, for the middlevils, it wasn't the institution of the cathedral (or abbey, or whatever) that owned the land, but rather the *saint* to whom the cathedral was dedicated.

At Chartres (dedicated to the Virgin), the term used for the land was "the lands of St. Mary" --at the royal abbey of St. Denis, it was "the lands of St. Denis," etc.

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 04:19
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Reference comments


17 hrs
Reference: 0fficiers Domaniaux du Roy

Reference information:
"... SA MAJESTE EN SON CONSEIL A ordonné & ordonne, Que les Engagistes desdits Domaines et Greffes, Receveurs & Controlleurs des Domaine, Receveurs des Amendes, Controlleurs des Dépens, Greffiers des Affirmations, & autres Officiers Domaniaux ..."

Recueil des anciens édits et ordonnances du Roy concernant les domaines et ...
By Louis Le Caron, page 272

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nOkW-kzl3zQC&pg=PA271&lpg...

Histoire de la Maison Royale de France, et des grands officiers de la Couronne
By Anselme de Sainte-Marie, Ange de Sainte-Rosalie

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oQP15CnzVicC&pg=PA519&lpg...


Histoire généalogique et chronologique de la maison royale de France, des ...
By Anselme de Sainte-Marie (1625-1694), Honoré Caille Du Fourny, Ange de Sainte-Rosalie (1655-1726), Simplicien ([Père])

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MdlEAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA519&lpg...

Daryo
United Kingdom
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search