groupes intégrés

English translation: chains (of camping sites)

16:44 Jun 11, 2020
French to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Tourism & Travel
French term or phrase: groupes intégrés
This is background info about a campsite/campground:

Les réseaux des campings sont constitués de deux catégories d'acteurs :

(1) Les groupes intégrés : détenus par un seul et même acteur (famille, fonds d’investissement, …) ;
(2) Les chaînes d’indépendants : regroupements d’exploitants qui bénéficient d’une structure centrale et de son support opérationnel et marketing (notoriété de la marque, canaux de distribution, etc.).

I'm aware that there has already been a kudoz question on this term:
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/energy-power-ge...

But I don't think the answers correspond to the definition above.
tatyana000
Local time: 04:50
English translation:chains (of camping sites)
Explanation:
The usual term in UK for a number of shops or hotels or leisure centres (or any other businesses) owned by the same company (or any other single entity)

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Note added at 7 hrs (2020-06-12 00:21:39 GMT)
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In US also:

10 Largest Hotel Chains In The US
....
https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/10-largest-hotel-chains-i...
Selected response from:

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:50
Grading comment
Thank you! This one was tricky!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3[reword the translation]
Wolf Draeger
4chains (of camping sites)
Daryo
3 +1single-owners
AllegroTrans
3independent companies/enterprises
Juan Arturo Blackmore Zerón
3group owners
Michael Grabczan-Grabowski
3legal persons
SafeTex
3 -1integrated groups
Barbara Cochran, MFA


Discussion entries: 14





  

Answers


24 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
independent companies/enterprises


Explanation:
https://www.linternaute.fr/dictionnaire/fr/definition/groupe...

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/independent-ent...

Juan Arturo Blackmore Zerón
Mexico
Local time: 21:50
Native speaker of: Spanish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Carol Gullidge
38 mins

agree  philgoddard
1 hr

disagree  SafeTex: Independent companies can form this group, but you miss the point completely as 'intégré' has become 'independent'. We know families can be a "groupe intégré" and the translation misses this too. And one reference is for groupe intègre (and not "intégré")
1 hr

disagree  Daryo: that's exactly the opposite of the definitions that are relevant i.e. the ones given in the source text
6 hrs
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32 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
integrated groups


Explanation:
https://www.linguee.com/french-english/translation/groupe in...

Barbara Cochran, MFA
United States
Local time: 22:50
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Daryo: which one exactly of the results thrown at you by this linguee search is supposed to be relevant for this ST? I gave up trying to find one after the 10th totally irrelevant /out of context "result" ...
6 hrs
  -> Why, it's quite obvious to anybody who can read that the first context that was listed would be germane in this case.

neutral  AllegroTrans: Whilst this a word for word translation, it conveys nothing in English for this context
8 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
group owners


Explanation:
I'm assuming you're wanting to deviate from the obvious integrated groups translation. An integrated group simply means a group that is interconnected or coordinated somehow, in this case by ownership, i.e., family-owned or owned by a fund, etc. However, I'll think of an alternative:

I'm assuming that réseaux des campings (campground networks?) refer to groups of campgrounds that are somehow linked (by ownership).

Perhaps an alternative would be group owners. Yes, it's not a direct translation of groupes intégrés, but the information that follows the term and the general intention of the text still make it fit. The word intégré is rather unnecessary in any case because the word group already implies there is some link between the elements constituting the group.

I would differentiate between group owners and franchisees.

Michael Grabczan-Grabowski
Canada
Local time: 20:50
Works in field
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Daryo: "group owners" is about the owners vs "les groupes intégrés" is about the camping sites // the other option IS NOT about "des franchises", but that's not the question.
6 hrs
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
chains (of camping sites)


Explanation:
The usual term in UK for a number of shops or hotels or leisure centres (or any other businesses) owned by the same company (or any other single entity)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2020-06-12 00:21:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In US also:

10 Largest Hotel Chains In The US
....
https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/10-largest-hotel-chains-i...

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:50
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thank you! This one was tricky!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  AllegroTrans: This fails to make any distinction from "Les chaînes d’indépendants" which surely is key here
57 mins
  -> "Les chaînes d’indépendants" = "collectives / co-ops / associations / ... " of independent campsites - for that type of "network" les chaînes / chains would be a nasty false friend. Problem solved?

disagree  SafeTex: If "groupes intégrés" = "chains", "chaînes d'indépendents" = ???
1 hr
  -> see above

agree  Michael Grabczan-Grabowski: Using the definition of chain, i.e., "a number of similar establishments, as banks, theaters, or hotels, under one ownership or management," it would seem to fit 100% the definition provided in the ST. Without more context, I can't disagree.
1 day 17 hrs
  -> Thanks!

agree  Wolf Draeger: Quite right! My answer misunderstands the whole thing.
1 day 19 hrs
  -> Thanks!
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
single-owners


Explanation:
The term intégrés is rather misleading, so I am simply using the definition to arrive at this
For the second term I would use "chains of independent owners"
So clearly we are looking at smaller, privately-run sites vs chains (very probably franchises)


AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:50
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 27

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Barbara Cochran, MFA: Never have heard of this expression in English. "Single-owners", with the hyphen, doesn't seem to exist.
18 mins
  -> thanks

agree  Wolf Draeger
11 hrs
  -> thanks

agree  Michael Grabczan-Grabowski: Perhaps something like single-owner campground groups.
1 day 18 hrs
  -> thanks and yes, that seems sensible
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1 day 7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
legal persons


Explanation:
Perhaps no one has thought of this as we don't have the usual "personne morale" but maybe it works nonetheless


    https://www.insee.fr/fr/metadonnees/definition/c1251
SafeTex
France
Local time: 04:50
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: Might small owners not be individuals (e.g. Pierre's campsite)?
19 hrs
  -> the term is "groupe intégré" so even if it is called "Pierre's campsite", several people are involved like a family no?
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20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
[reword the translation]


Explanation:
The more I think about it, the less I get what the ST is trying to say. I know next to nothing about the (French) camping industry, but I don't see why one would differentiate between two standard forms of ownership, unless it's to then laud the supposed advantages of the one over the other (depending on which applies to the client, I presume).

So my workaround is to reword the whole section in a way that won't leave readers scratching their heads:

Campsites fall under two categories of ownership:

(1) Camping grounds all owned by the same entity (e.g. family-owned or private equity-owned);
(2) Camping grounds each owned by an independent franchisee (with shared benefits such as central buying, operational and marketing support, brand power and distribution channels).


I think by intégrés the FR means a vague combination of integrated and consolidated, but neither of those seems right here. And in my experience groupe is often best left out in translation; the term is not nearly so common in EN as in FR where a company with only one subsidiary is cheerfully bumped up to group status.

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Note added at 1 day 21 hrs (2020-06-13 14:24:10 GMT)
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To elaborate on my answer, I think the distinction that matters in the ST is between how the campsites are managed rather than who owns them, with ownership serving as a proxy for management.

On the one hand you have campsites all owned by the same entity, meaning they are run on identical lines (see one and you've seen them all; you know what to expect). On the other hand you have campsites each owned by separate entities, meaning they are run independently of one another (all fall under the same brand and so have most or many features in common, but each one is different and has some latitude to do things its own way and offer its own unique experience).

Note that these ownership structures pertain to the camping grounds only; in both cases, I presume, the overall business or trademark is still owned by one entity.

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Note added at 2 days 3 hrs (2020-06-13 19:56:38 GMT)
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So, in light of Asker's note and discussion entry, and having paid more attention to Daryo's answer and discussion entry, I think I've got it completely wrong and Daryo is in fact right with "chains".

Wolf Draeger
South Africa
Local time: 04:50
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8
Notes to answerer
Asker: Normally I'm all for rewording, but then this term appears in a table comparing all the different types of campsites: groupes intégrés vs. les chaînes d’indépendants (both are members of networks) vs. independent campsites that are not members of any network.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Suzie Withers
22 hrs
  -> Ta.

agree  AllegroTrans
1 day 1 hr
  -> Ta.

agree  Michael Grabczan-Grabowski: Beautiful! Well put, I think.
1 day 4 hrs
  -> Ta, but I think I've got the wrong end of the stick.
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