originäre dispositive Arbeit

English translation: autonomous dispositive labor

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

German term or phrase:	originäre dispositive Arbeit
English translation:	autonomous dispositive labor
Entered by:	Mack Tillman

18:04 Jun 13, 2015

German to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Economics / factors of production

German term or phrase: originäre dispositive Arbeit

Die Aufgabe der Unternehmensleitung bezeichnet man als originäre dispositive Arbeit.

The sentence has to do with Erich Gutenberg's definition of the factors of production being (in German) e.g.:
Elementarfaktoren sind die ausführende, d.h. die objektbezogene Arbeit, die Betriebsmittel und Werkstoffe. Die Elementarfaktoren sind direkt am Produktionsprozess beteiligt. Als dispositiven Faktor bezeichnet man das Unternehmensmanagement, dessen Aufgabe es ist, die Produktionsfaktoren zu kombinieren. Die Aufgabe der Unternehmensleitung bezeichnet man als originäre dispositive Arbeit.

I can't find a corresponding englisch expression for: "originäre dispositive Arbeit" even though I tend to interpret it as primarly planning and coordinating work in contrast to object-related work; meaning the work that is carried out due to be charged with it through executive management.

I thought "entrepreneurship" might do the job, but my understanding of entrepreneurship is that it, of course, has to do with planning and coordinating, but merely at start-up and not as an ongoing process.

Perhaps someone has a good idea or has had the same problem at some time. I welcome a lively discussion.

Many thanks in advance.

Mack Tillman KudoZ activity Questions: 1 (none open) Answers: 177 Germany
Local time: 20:03

autonomous dispositive labor

Explanation:
Compare with link below:
"In it the factor of labor, more precisely, of executing labor, separates itself from managerial performance, which is, of course, also a form of labor: dispositive-autonomous labor, not heteronomous labor..."
https://books.google.com/books?id=KuocFCBFB_AC&pg=PA330&lpg=...

Selected response from:

Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 14:03

Grading comment

Martin,
your picking up this translation from Arthur Rich's book did help me in a sense because it caused me to think about your suggestion many times over. Autonomous can really be used because it states that this labor is not depending on anyone else, which actually describes the role of top-level company management being the ultimate authority having the say. Labor, ok.

M-W: Definition of DISPOSITIVE
: directed toward or effecting disposition (as of a case)

M-W: Full Definition of DISPOSITION
1 : the act or the power of disposing or the state of being disposed: as
a : administration, control
b : final arrangement : settlement
c (1) : transfer to the care or possession of another (2) : the power of such transferal

M-W: Definition of — dispose of
...
2 a : to transfer to the control of another

As can be derived from the M-W definitions, I will leave dispositive standing in my translation, i.e., I'll use your suggestion and just paraphrase it just like Gerd Zeitler did on his website: "According to E. Gutenberg (1951), the managerial or entrepreneurial task, as the dispositive factor, includes auxiliary functions such as planing, organizing and controlling." (https://gerdzeitler.wordpress.com/factors-of-production/).

There are days, when I can't see the wood for the trees. ;-) Perhaps you've had some of those, too?
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

autonomous dispositive labor

Michael Martin, MA

Discussion entries: 8

Björn Vrooman

14:45 Jun 14, 2015

Hello Mack,

Since I'm not home right now, just a short cell answer to your second note: I'd favor primary over genuine. Your Wiki link also speaks of primary factors and genuine I'd expect in a paper on counterfeit products. As far as I know, the charge against Gutenberg was the same as against other economists: too much "objectification." So I don't know whether a more "humane concept" (no mistranslation, but a sarcastic wordplay) would fit here, i.e. entrepreneurs as people. Something like primary organizational factors/work or similar wouldn't work? That'd be closest to the German.

Mack Tillman

Germany

ASKER

Still don't feel comfortable

12:30 Jun 14, 2015

Thank you Susan, Phil and Björn,

@ Susan: Sorry, I don't speak Spanish but thanks anyway.

@ Phil: Well, the text is from a course "Einführung in die Betriebswirtschaftslehre" and shall be turned into an English course version. I find that your proposal of combinatory is going in the right direction. Regarding "originär", I favor either genuine or primary.

@ Björn: I second your opinion about "Michael's link may have native speakers as scientists, but mistranslations are nothing new in science (I discovered a few myself last time I wrote a paper on something...)."

Actually I'm thinking of maybe paraphrasing it in a sense to use "genuine entrepreneurial tasks". If you look at Meriam Webster's definition of ENTREPRENEUR: one who organizes, manages, and assumes the risks of a business or enterprise, it seems quite fitting. Also if you look at Wikipedia’s definition of "production factors", you'll also come up with entrepreneurship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factors_of_production#Entrepre...

What do you think of this?

Björn Vrooman

originär

20:06 Jun 13, 2015

Oh, and "originär" is the opposite to "derivativ" - the original source from which you derive other things. Not sure how they get to "autonomous" here. Management is the "basic factor," from which other factors are derived. See M3 on page 1:
http://www.klett.de/web/uploads/91a7bda49120d7e7dd5844fac6ee...

Management can act autonomously - that doesn't make management autonomous labor though.

Björn Vrooman

19:49 Jun 13, 2015

What to do about management then?

"Die Unternehmensleitung hat die Aufgabe, die Elementarfaktoren bereitzustellen und im Rahmen der einzelnen Teilbereiche des Unternehmens mithilfe der Unternehmensverfassung und der Unternehmenspolitik zu organisieren."
http://www.klett.de/web/uploads/91a7bda49120d7e7dd5844fac6ee...

Sounds like organizational factors now. Another book about Gutenberg has it as "disposition" factors (with the first word in quotation marks), i.e. a noun modifier. It is definitely not "dispositive" - that has a completely different meaning.

Michael's link may have native speakers as scientists, but mistranslations are nothing new in science (I discovered a few myself last time I wrote a paper on something...).

PS: You can look up Disposition and dispositiv on duden.de - the noun has more connotations than the adjective. And the adjective seems to be a false friend.

Björn Vrooman

@Phil and Mack

19:44 Jun 13, 2015

Nice to see you around still, Phil. I do agree with your statements - the German "disposition" is usually translated as "planning" or "MRP" (based on context), but not with "disposition."

Here, it's a bit more complicated. Another explanation of Gutenberg's book reads, "Die betriebswirtschaftlichen Faktoren Betriebsmittel, Werkstoffe und ausführende Arbeit bilden die Elementarfaktoren. Die dispositive Arbeit wird als vierter Produktionsfaktor angesehen. Ihre Aufgabe ist es, die Elementarfaktoren durch Planung, Leitung, Steuerung und Kontrolle zu zweckvollen Faktorkombinationen zusammenzuführen."
http://www.rechnungswesen-verstehen.de/bwl-vwl/bwl/betriebsw...

Somewhat like Production Planning and Control. But "dispositiv" means only "anordnend" here (as in the Duden), which you can find as part of M-W too, under "dispose": to put in place : set in readiness : arrange <disposing troops for withdrawal>

Susana Goldmann

Argentina

18:47 Jun 13, 2015

Hier auf Spanisch: Seite 807
http://dspace.uah.es/dspace/bitstream/handle/10017/6368/B.E....

philgoddard

United States

18:35 Jun 13, 2015

It partly depends on whether the text goes on to elaborate on the concept, or whether this is the only time it's mentioned.

If it's the latter, I'd be tempted to leave the whole sentence out and put a note to the customer explaining why. Your job is to produce a text that flows and keeps the reader with you, rather than distracting them so that they stop reading and think hang on, what's this all about?

philgoddard

United States

18:30 Jun 13, 2015

Sounds like a typical example of economists making things more complicated than they really are! It's debatable whether the entire sentence adds anything - it's just restating the previous text in more fancy language.

I found the English word "dispositive" being used online in relation to Gutenberg, but I think this is wrong - it appears to be purely a legal term. "Dispositional" doesn't work either, as it means "relating to one's state of mind".

"Combinatory" would be a good choice, as it says "dessen Aufgabe es ist, die Produktionsfaktoren zu kombinieren". But how do we deal with "originär"? The dictionary says distinct, genuine, original or originary.

Answers

56 mins confidence:

autonomous dispositive labor

Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 14:03
Works in field
Native speaker of:

German,

English
PRO pts in category: 12

Grading comment

Martin,
your picking up this translation from Arthur Rich's book did help me in a sense because it caused me to think about your suggestion many times over. Autonomous can really be used because it states that this labor is not depending on anyone else, which actually describes the role of top-level company management being the ultimate authority having the say. Labor, ok.

M-W: Definition of DISPOSITIVE
: directed toward or effecting disposition (as of a case) <dispositive evidence>

M-W: Full Definition of DISPOSITION
1 : the act or the power of disposing or the state of being disposed: as
a : administration, control
b : final arrangement : settlement <the disposition of the case>
c (1) : transfer to the care or possession of another (2) : the power of such transferal

M-W: Definition of — dispose of
...
2 a : to transfer to the control of another <disposing of personal property to a total stranger>

As can be derived from the M-W definitions, I will leave dispositive standing in my translation, i.e., I'll use your suggestion and just paraphrase it just like Gerd Zeitler did on his website: "According to E. Gutenberg (1951), the managerial or entrepreneurial task, as the dispositive factor, includes auxiliary functions such as planing, organizing and controlling." (https://gerdzeitler.wordpress.com/factors-of-production/).

There are days, when I can't see the wood for the trees. ;-) Perhaps you've had some of those, too?

Notes to answerer

Asker: Hello Martin, please see my comments in the discussion. I also came across the book you are citing and I didn't really feel that comfortable with how it was being translated. Thanks anyway

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

Return to KudoZ list

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

See also:

ProZ.com term search

Search millions of term translations

originäre dispositive Arbeit

English translation: autonomous dispositive labor

Answers

KudoZ™ translation help

Your current localization setting

Select a language

originäre dispositive Arbeit

English translation: autonomous dispositive labor

Answers

KudoZ™ translation help

You have native languages that can be verified

Your current localization setting

Select a language