Ermahnung vs. Abmahnung

English translation: reprimand vs. warning notice

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

German term or phrase:	Ermahnung vs. Abmahnung
English translation:	reprimand vs. warning notice
Entered by:	Tatijana Kostovska

12:42 Dec 17, 2020

German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Human Resources

German term or phrase: Ermahnung vs. Abmahnung

Both of these terms are a part of an attorneys letter to the company. I did see that both terms are already translated in the Glossary, but would like your help in understanding the different translations in this context.

Following is the sentence:

Gegenstand der Beauftragung ist die meinem Mandanten erteilte Ermahnung, die im Hinblick auf die Formulierung des Schreibens auch als Abmahnung gewertet werden könnte.

Thank you so much for any suggestions.

Tatijana Kostovska KudoZ activity Questions: 13 (none open) Answers: 67 Germany
Local time: 12:07

reprimand vs. warning notice

Explanation:
I am no expert in labor law but I imagine this could indicate a pattern similar to the one laid out below:

"For example, in the first provision, the employee receives a copy of the report; and in the second, concerned with avoidable accidents , there is progressive discipline including both a letter of reprimand followed by a warning notice:"

From "Privacy Provisions in Major Collective Bargaining Agreements"
https://books.google.com/books?id=3btIAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA9&lpg=PA...

Selected response from:

Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 06:07

Grading comment

4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3 +3

reprimand vs. warning notice

Michael Martin, MA

reprimand vs. disciplinary warning

Diana Harris

admonition vs. final warning

Klaus Beyer

first informal warning vs. final formal warning

Adrian MM.

Discussion entries: 6

Adrian MM.

Austria

@ Björn - Abmahnung always written in LIE

04:22 Dec 18, 2020

your refs are Germano-centric: https://www.liechtensteinjobs.li/ratgeber/arbeit/muss-eine-a...

Björn Vrooman

@Adrian

03:20 Dec 18, 2020

Yes, an Ermahnung can be verbal--but that is also true for an Abmahnung:
https://www.ra-skwar.de/arbeitsrecht kuendigung.htm#1
https://www.arbeitsrechte.de/muendliche-abmahnung/

I'm not totally sold on formal vs. informal, though it's better than reprimand vs. warning because "an employee warning letter is also known as a written warning, letter of reprimand, disciplinary form, and warning notice," so that is no help [https://www.upcounsel.com/employee-behavior-warning-letter]; I think you need to focus on "final" (which you have, as I had indirectly said below). Plus, even a verbal one should be documented (see first ENS link I posted). We could take out "written" if you want.

Though please keep in mind that it says "Formulierung des Schreibens," i.e., in this particular context, we are definitely talking about a written warning.

Best

Adrian MM.

Austria

@ Björn - Ermahnung can be verbal > mündlich

01:57 Dec 18, 2020

... so oral or written. I didn't insert these variations after informal lest the answer became open to criticism as 'too long'.

Obiter, I know as a past clerk from my Hamburg law office that our Bürovorsteher - paradoxically from Dachau - received a 'tongue-lashing' Ermahnung a couple of times from Big Boss: a Patentfachanwältin who had been born 'Helene Fischer'.

Björn Vrooman

Hello Tatijana

01:45 Dec 18, 2020

If you read this https://www.hensche.de/Rechtsanwalt_Arbeitsrecht_Handbuch_Ab...

and compare it to progressive discipline policies, such as
https://hr.vanderbilt.edu/policies/progressive-discipline.ph...

the choice here is between "written warning" and "final written warning," as some have already suggested in one way or another.

Same on this UK page: https://croner.co.uk/resources/disciplinary-grievances/writt...

It's not just verbal and suspension isn't part of it either, IMO.

Best wishes

Tatijana Kostovska

Germany

ASKER

15:50 Dec 17, 2020

hello and thank you your support. this is an attorney letter to a company supporting his client (the employee of this company) who received a warning for an alleged incident.

philgoddard

United States

15:17 Dec 17, 2020

Could you tell us what this is about and give us a few paragraphs of German context, please.

Answers

2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

reprimand vs. warning notice

Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 06:07
Meets criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of:

German,

English
PRO pts in category: 113

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you for this answer. I chose it as the most suitable option and it worked fine in the context.

3 hrs confidence:

reprimand vs. disciplinary warning

Explanation:
Depending on the exact context, you could also use "disciplinary warning" for Abmahnung.
This would emphasize that the reprimand could also serve as a document in legal proceedings and that some type of (disciplinary) action will be taken after someone receives the warning.

Diana Harris
United States
Local time: 05:07
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of:

English,

German

4 hrs confidence:

first informal warning vs. final formal warning

Explanation:
Low level of confidence as I have no idea what German-speaking country this is from and how eine Verwarnung would then fit into the picture: possibly a second-stage warning.

Some UK directors and officers - who are not exactly models of competence and restrained behaviour themselves - dress up the first idea as a 'first reminder'.

Ermahnung: admonition vs. Abmahnung cease-and-desist letter: Dietl / Lorenz.

Example sentence(s):

"Einer Ermahnung fehlt die Warnfunktion. Für eine verhaltenbedingte Kündigung reicht sie nicht aus", so Jörg Hoffmann, Fachanwalt für Arbeitsrecht in Bochum. "
Eine Abmahnung hat eine ausdrückliche Warnfunktion und kann im Falle einer Wiederholung eine verhaltensbedingte Kündigung seitens des Arbeitgebers nach sich ziehen.

Reference: http://www.proz.com/personal-glossaries/entry/14494166-die-m...
Reference: http://www.abmahnung.org/ermahnung/www.abmahnung.org/ermahnu...

Adrian MM.
Austria
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 8

10 hrs confidence:

admonition vs. final warning

Explanation:
reprimand is more of a 'Tadel'

Klaus Beyer
United States
Local time: 05:07
Meets criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of: English

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English translation: reprimand vs. warning notice

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