gazdasági letelepedettség

12:34 Jan 19, 2016 

:)

12:29 Jan 19, 2016 

?

12:25 Jan 19, 2016 

ezt valami agyament adószakértő vagy ügyvéd írta le, minimum két vodka és munkaidő után. Nem bírom kihagyni, erről jutott eszembe:

Két barát beszélget, az egyik meglátja a másik poharát és döbbenten azt mondja:
- Te mit iszol???
- Vodka-narancsot.
- Reggel nyolckor???
- Azért van benne narancs(lé).

12:24 Jan 19, 2016 

From NAV's Guideline it seems your term is just an explanatory and collective description for "seat/registered office" (székhely) and "permanent business establishment" (állandó telephely - also from NAV's website!)

I like "established place of business", check this: https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/dmv/established-place-busin... It's the same dichotomy we are dissecting here.

12:21 Jan 19, 2016 

registered place of business as gazdasági letelepedettség??? No way I can agree with.
What kind of document is that?

12:19 Jan 19, 2016 

Az eredetit szerintem így kell értelmezni: Van-e Magyarországon a teljesítéssel legközvetlenebbül érintett gazdasági letelepedettsége, AZAZ székhelye, állandó telephelye?
A közvetlenebbség és a legközvetlenebbség lehengerlő képek :)) Mi is lehetne angolul: most directly? Ez logikai nonszensz, hiszen vagy közvetlenül vagy közvetetten érintett, nem? Vannak fokozatai a közvetlenségnek?

12:18 Jan 19, 2016 

Thanks for your contributions. How about "registered place of business"?

12:07 Jan 19, 2016 

but if I would know what is the "szörnyszülött" sentence in English - dis part "a teljesítéssel legközvetlenebbül érintett " is a nightmare of any translator.

12:06 Jan 19, 2016 

Az adóalany lehet magánszemély is meg cég is, és mindkettőnek van - from taxation point of view - saját residency-je. Húdeszépenmegmondtam:(

12:03 Jan 19, 2016 

so finally we can agree? :P

12:02 Jan 19, 2016 

So, residency is determined by the place of:
- gazdasági célú letelepedés (in the case of businesses)
- domicile or usual place of residence (in the case of natural persons who don't do business).

So in a way, yes, I do agree that residency is a good translation if the other aspects are irrelevant :)

11:59 Jan 19, 2016 

A natural person with no business activity does not have gazdasági célú letelepedés, that's what I meant. This is confirmed by the NAV Guideline I linked below. It shows what the tax administration means by gazdasági célú letelepedés:
Gazdasági célú letelepedés: az adóalany ott telepedik le gazdasági céllal, ahol az Áfa tv. szerinti gazdasági tevékenységének székhelye vagy állandó telephelye van. So obviously a natural person with no economic activity does not have gazdasági célú letelepedés. But domicile or usual place of residence (where they live, but don't do any business).

11:42 Jan 19, 2016 

let me drop a mail to Zsuzsanna Boronkay-Roe, senior lecturer. She is a living knowledge database in a tiny body.

11:23 Jan 19, 2016 

but I continue to fully disagree with you because
"I mean that the term gazdasági célú letelepedés cannot be used in the case of natural persons."
What you talking about? Of course a natural person can move, too. Why not? This term is not about the business. You may be a business owner in Sweden, like the ABBA or in France, like Gérard Depardieu did, (it is well known fact that he even changed his citizenship) but in case if your income is heavily taxed, you may change your RESIDENCY for/due to economic purpose. In other words, you want to live in a country where the taxation conditions are more favorable for you. You may be either a private person or a businessman.

"It means the established place of BUSINESS, which, of course, determines where the business is resident."

gazdasági célú letelepedés is "e/immigration" (literally, establishment of a place to live) for/due to economic purpose and this is nothing to do with the domicile because the domicile is the address where you are registered but in fact, you can live within a country anywhere

What is this sentence from?

11:09 Jan 19, 2016 

the Hungarian certificate of residency, either issued to businesses or natural persons, doesn't mention "gazdasági célú letelepedés", but "illetőség".
I mean that the term gazdasági célú letelepedés cannot be used in the case of natural persons. It means the established place of BUSINESS, which, of course, determines where the business is resident.

Practically, gazdasági célú letelepedés is a collective term for registered office and/or permanent business establishment, but does NOT mean domicile (the address which determines a natural person's residency), while residency does.

10:19 Jan 19, 2016 

or at least, it doesn't mean that in the case of natural persons.

NAV issues the certificate of residency with the same name for the natural persons. So the residency is a unique term which applies both to natural persons and companies.

09:37 Jan 19, 2016 

Although I fully agree with Erzsi's comment in that gazdasági célú letelepedés under the Hungarian VAT Act (Section 254, see here: http://net.jogtar.hu/jr/gen/hjegy_doc.cgi?docid=A0700127.TV) means the place where the taxable person has its székhely or állandó telephely and therefore determines its residency, residency should be reserved for the term illetőség. While the place of gazdasági letelepedés determines residency, residency per se does not mean gazdasági letelepedés, or at least, it doesn't mean that in the case of natural persons. Gazdasági letelepedés seems to refer to businesses only, while residency of natural persons is determined by their domicile or usual place of residence.
Another (US) term is established place of business, you could use that, too.

21:15 Jan 18, 2016 

https://www.nav.gov.hu/data/cms284517/3004_2013_2013.02.21_0...
Gazdasági célú letelepedés: az adóalany ott telepedik le gazdasági céllal, ahol az Áfa tv. szerinti gazdasági tevékenységének székhelye vagy állandó telephelye van
Székhely: a gazdasági tevékenység folytatásának az a helye, ahol a központi ügyvezetés helye van, kivéve, ha az Európai Unió kötelező jogi aktusa ettől eltérően rendelkezik.
Állandó telephely: a székhelyen kívül a gazdasági tevékenység helyhez kötött folytatására huzamosabb időtartamra létesített vagy arra szánt földrajzilag körülhatárolt hely... (continued in the pdf)

Even better:
http://nav.gov.hu/data/cms322314/3_melleklet.pdf
PBE – állandó telephely (Permanent Business Establishment)

21:08 Jan 18, 2016 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN-HU/TXT/?uri=CELEX:... here's the EN-HU bilingual text of Council Directive 2008/8/EC amending Directive 2006/112/EC as regards the place of supply of services. Fixed establishment and permanent address are used apparently interchangeably.
It may help you with other terms, too.

21:04 Jan 18, 2016 

OK, so go for economic establishment, so what about allandó telephely? That's definitely permanent (or fixed) establishment, right?

20:26 Jan 18, 2016 

Yes, Peter, I haven't heard it either, and it's not defined here, so I think I'll just point it out to the client, and in the meantime put something like "economic facility".

16:59 Jan 18, 2016 

you're right about having to agree on something. As to this phrase, however, I've never ever met "gazdasági letelepedettség" anywhere in 60 years, while I've had quite a number of lawyer members of my families. The phrase sounds queer to me, like when someone really wanted to say something unique without thinking much about the result. I could of course be wrong.

16:49 Jan 18, 2016 

No, settlement definitely not. There seems to be some confusion in the Hungarian laws about "permanent place of business", "permanent establishment", "site", "business site", etc. It would be very good if we could all agree on these terms.

16:42 Jan 18, 2016 

how about settlement? Should research though.