anche

English translation: also

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

Italian term or phrase:	anche
English translation:	also
Entered by:	philgoddard

09:43 Apr 16, 2014

Italian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting / GRAMMAR

Italian term or phrase: anche

This is a question, in light of Peter Newmark's general guidelines in "Textbook of Translation" (pardon the quotes but Proz.com doesn't yet have Italics), on how to account for the word "anche", exclusively in situations like the following:

"Le lettere O e A richiamano i due protagonisti, Orlando e Angelica, che si trasformeranno anche in Arlecchino e Smeraldina passando dalla tradizione dei pupi siciliani alla commedia dell'arte, dall'Orlando Furioso al Servo di due padroni di goldoniana memoria".

The "anche" here implies they'll be passing through other figures from theatre as well (the text is for the Venice Biennale of Theatre).

Newmark says every word must be ACCOUNTED FOR (again scuse the caps, no italics on this forum!) but not necessarily translated. Is there a way known to man to account for this word, which in English usage seems awkward to translate litteraly as "also", inserting it into the middle of the sentence and thus breaking, it seems to me, the euphony of an otherwise pleasant sentence? Here's my English attempt below, with the offending word in parenthesis, as William Zinsser suggests doing when editing:

"The letters O and A recall the two protagonists, Orlando and Angelica, who will be transformed (also) into Harlequin and Esmeralda while passing from from pupi siciliani tradition of commedia dell'arte, from Orlando Furioso in the servant of two masters of the happy memory."

It's just come to me: perhaps "among others". Any other ideas?

Thank you,

Peter

ps. This post harks back to Jim's post (http://www.proz.com/kudoz/italian_to_english/advertising_pub... I've added my suggestion (among other things) to that long list of options and still, nevertheless, would welcome new ideas for my situation here. Thanks!

Peter Waymel KudoZ activity Questions: 489 (1 open) (1 without valid answers) (12 closed without grading) Answers: 2 Italy
Local time: 22:02

also

Explanation:
"Will be transformed also" is not correct English, and you were right to query it. However, "will also be transformed" is correct.

You've got into a bit of a mess with the whole sentence, and especially your guess as to the meaning of "goldoniana". So here is my suggestion for the whole thing.

The letters O and A recall the two protagonists, Orlando and Angelica, who are also transformed into Harlequin and Smeraldina, taking them from traditional Sicialian puppet theatre to commedia dell'arte, from Ariosto's Orlando Furioso to Goldoni's The Servant of Two Masters.

Smeraldina is a character in the latter play. And I think that to be consistent, you have to either mention both authors' names, Ariosto and Goldoni, or leave them both out.

Selected response from:

philgoddard
United States

Grading comment

Thanks Phil. Yes, got caught with my pants down so to speak: inserted my partially done translation, while I handn't translated the second half of the sentence. "of happy memory" is Google's solution!
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +3

who will consequently ...

Lara Barnett

4 +1

also

philgoddard

4 +1

ultimately become

Rosanna Palermo

who will then also be known as

James (Jim) Davis

Discussion entries: 9

James (Jim) Davis

Seychelles

Phil's answer

19:44 Apr 22, 2014

My neutral is purely on an etiquette basis. I am strongly in the other camp that holds that "also" only works if there are two items (transformations here) clearly visible when you come to the word and I can't see even an implicit second item here (the context is limited). I haven't read Peter Newark, but if he wrote specifically on the word in terms of accounting for it and not translating it, and if my previous post and this one too generated so many intelligent alternatives to "also", then perhaps this is because "also" is the easy, but wrong way out of the problem. If it is not why on earth did you bother posting an extremely common everyday four letter word? I know why I posted it.

Lara Barnett

United Kingdom

@ Peter

11:34 Apr 16, 2014

I think there are two issues in this question. Combining Arts and grammar cannot solve both.

luskie

btw

11:27 Apr 16, 2014

it's "to" commedia dell'arte, "to" il servo di due padroni... e la memoria è goldoniana nel senso di Goldoni...

P.L.F. Persio

Netherlands

@Peter:

11:24 Apr 16, 2014

I've got it, Peter;-) I love bad jokes!

Lara Barnett

United Kingdom

@ Peter

11:09 Apr 16, 2014

So I will look for a specific term just for this sentence? It is difficult to enter two answers in one Kudoz entry. ALSO! if it were me, I would restructure if I did not want to translate literally, so the ultimate translation to render the sense of "also" here may not work in other situations were there is an "also". I restructure often by the way.

Peter Waymel

Italy

ASKER

@LaraBarnett

11:07 Apr 16, 2014

Hi Lara, the answer is: both! Thanks. - P

Peter Waymel

Italy

ASKER

11:06 Apr 16, 2014

Interesting, MissDutch (did you btw win a beauty pageant? Sorry, bad joke!)(write me if you don't get it, I'll explain): "in seguito" as "afterwards"! You're right!

Lara Barnett

United Kingdom

@ Peter

11:05 Apr 16, 2014

Are you specifically looking for a good word to use in this Arlecchino e Smeraldina sentence, or are you looking for a word to use generally. I cannot understand what purpose the translation is for as you state "...in situations like the following:..>".

P.L.F. Persio

Netherlands

09:56 Apr 16, 2014

Riposto il link: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/italian_to_english/advertising_pub... così dovrebbe aprirsi; la tua idea mi sembra molto buona. Qui direi che anche possa venir sostituito da inoltre o persino in seguito.

Answers

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

who will consequently ...

Explanation:
As stated in my discussion entry above, if I did not want to use the word "also" here, I would restructure. For example:

"...Orlando and Angelica, who will consequently become transformed into Harlequin and Smeraldina as they pass from the Sicilian puppet tradition (through) to that of Commedia dell'arte."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2014-04-16 11:17:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

i.e. I think that the actual precise sense of "anche" here is not present in any English usage of "also", but looking towards another way to translate formally translate "also" will not work.

Lara Barnett
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:02
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 49

3 hrs confidence:

che si trasformeranno anche in who will then also be known as

Explanation:
...
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/italian_to_english/advertising_pub...

James (Jim) Davis
Seychelles
Local time: 00:02
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 157

5 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

also

philgoddard
United States
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 119

Grading comment

5 days confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

ultimately become

Explanation:
ultimately implies that these characters "final incarnation" will be Harlequin and Esmeralda
www.dictionary.com
ultimately
ul·ti·mate [uhl-tuh-mit] Show IPA
adjective
1.
last; furthest or farthest; ending a process or series: the ultimate point in a journey; the ultimate style in hats.
2.
maximum; decisive; conclusive: the ultimate authority; the ultimate weapon.
3.
highest; not subsidiary: ultimate goal in life.
4.
basic; fundamental; representing a limit beyond which further progress, as in investigation or analysis, is impossible: the ultimate particle; ultimate principles.
5.
final; total: the ultimate consequences; the ultimate cost of a project.

Rosanna Palermo
Local time: 16:02
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Italian,

English
PRO pts in category: 36

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