Quelli francamente scoccati

English translation: Those with the most poisoned pens (see explanation)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Italian term or phrase:Quelli francamente scoccati
English translation:Those with the most poisoned pens (see explanation)
Entered by: Lisa Jane

15:54 Jan 15, 2018
Italian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting / 1960s Art criticism
Italian term or phrase: Quelli francamente scoccati
Good afternoon everyone,

My question has arisen from an article (written 1964) which discusses the various attitudes of 1960s "moralists" in the Italian press who were keen to have their say about what new dada and pop art were about. The phrase I am struggling with is as follows: -

"Quelli francamente scoccati hanno trovato piú confortevole e europeo aspettare i benefici di una nuova figurazione di là da venire, per il momento compendio di tutti i velleitarismi; altri addirittura, hanno scoperto che un gruppetto di pittori romani poteva considerarsi oltre la pop art."

My attempted translation is as so: -

"Those who are openly uncorked have found it more comfortable and European to wait for the benefits of a forthcoming new figuration, the current compendium of all wishful thinking..."

Having researched the verb "scoccare" it appears to refer to loud noises made as a result of a swift action, but I haven't been able to find another example where it's used as an adjective for a person.

My use of "uncorked" here is quite tenuous I think (I was aiming for the idea of someone who noisily voices their opinions) and I would love to hear anybody else's take on it.

Thank you so much
Madeline Robinson
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:43
Those with the most poisoned pens (see explanation)
Explanation:
Scoccare is also used figuratively to mean fire abuse at someone so if you are sure it is not a typo (and there are no commas in the source text in the case of scioccati should have read Quelli, francamente scioccati, ...), you could read it as the past participle of scoccare.

http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/scoccare_(Sinonimi-e-Cont...
3. (fig.) [dirigere verso gli altri con impeto e foga: s. occhiate di fuoco, parole velenose] ≈ (lett.) dardeggiare, indirizzare, lanciare,

In this case it would be saying that those hurling direct ('frank') abuse found it more convenient to wait for etc. etc.
If you want something more idiomatic that refers to written abuse, the poisoned pen idiom may work.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2018-01-15 17:34:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If the journalist is discussing his contemporaries then it may be better to use the present perfect as you, yourself, suggested

those who have found it more convenient...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2018-01-15 17:49:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/poison_pen
poison pen (plural poison pens)

(idiomatic) A manner, means, or tone of expression had by a written work, characterized by spitefulness, defamation, and/or intimidation directed toward a person, organization, or point of view.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2018-01-16 11:47:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

After having seen the previous context I think scocciati fits perfectly with the preceding sentences as 'quelli' refers to Guttuso's party comrades who were 'openly annoyed/irritated by' the parallel he has drawn between pop art and 'realismo socialista'.


"Guttuso, pro domo usa, ha creato un parallelo tra pop-art (pop è un'abbreviazione di popular) e realismo socialista, senza peraltro guadagnarsi la riconoscenza della Pravda e dei suoi compagni di partito.
Quelli francamente scocciati hanno trovato più confortevole e europeo aspettare i benefici di una nuova figurazione di là da venire, per il momento compendio di tutti i velleitarismi; altri addirittura, hanno scoperto che un gruppetto di pittori romani poteva considerarsi oltre la pop art.\"
Selected response from:

Lisa Jane
Italy
Local time: 11:43
Grading comment
Thank you very much for your help, Lisa. It was important to recognise that scoccare can also work in this phrase. All the best
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2those who are, frankly speaking, shocked
Barbara Cochran, MFA
4Those with the most poisoned pens (see explanation)
Lisa Jane
4I agree on a typo for shocked (scioccati)
Danydani


Discussion entries: 13





  

Answers


20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
those who are, frankly speaking, shocked


Explanation:
Moralists are often outraged or shocked by anything that runs counter to their beliefs.

Barbara Cochran, MFA
United States
Local time: 05:43
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: As Tom points out, it's a typo for scioccati.
5 mins
  -> Thank you, phil.

agree  Danydani: I agree. Explanation below
21 days
  -> Thank you, Danydani.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Those with the most poisoned pens (see explanation)


Explanation:
Scoccare is also used figuratively to mean fire abuse at someone so if you are sure it is not a typo (and there are no commas in the source text in the case of scioccati should have read Quelli, francamente scioccati, ...), you could read it as the past participle of scoccare.

http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/scoccare_(Sinonimi-e-Cont...
3. (fig.) [dirigere verso gli altri con impeto e foga: s. occhiate di fuoco, parole velenose] ≈ (lett.) dardeggiare, indirizzare, lanciare,

In this case it would be saying that those hurling direct ('frank') abuse found it more convenient to wait for etc. etc.
If you want something more idiomatic that refers to written abuse, the poisoned pen idiom may work.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2018-01-15 17:34:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If the journalist is discussing his contemporaries then it may be better to use the present perfect as you, yourself, suggested

those who have found it more convenient...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2018-01-15 17:49:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/poison_pen
poison pen (plural poison pens)

(idiomatic) A manner, means, or tone of expression had by a written work, characterized by spitefulness, defamation, and/or intimidation directed toward a person, organization, or point of view.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2018-01-16 11:47:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

After having seen the previous context I think scocciati fits perfectly with the preceding sentences as 'quelli' refers to Guttuso's party comrades who were 'openly annoyed/irritated by' the parallel he has drawn between pop art and 'realismo socialista'.


"Guttuso, pro domo usa, ha creato un parallelo tra pop-art (pop è un'abbreviazione di popular) e realismo socialista, senza peraltro guadagnarsi la riconoscenza della Pravda e dei suoi compagni di partito.
Quelli francamente scocciati hanno trovato più confortevole e europeo aspettare i benefici di una nuova figurazione di là da venire, per il momento compendio di tutti i velleitarismi; altri addirittura, hanno scoperto che un gruppetto di pittori romani poteva considerarsi oltre la pop art.\"

Lisa Jane
Italy
Local time: 11:43
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 218
Grading comment
Thank you very much for your help, Lisa. It was important to recognise that scoccare can also work in this phrase. All the best

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Dan Newton: We could bat this one back and forth forever, Lisa, and not get any closer to the truth, but FWIW, I don't think "quelli" refers to Guttuso's party comrades, who I reckon are unlikely to have been concerned with "una nuova figurazione di là da venire"
1 day 2 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

21 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
I agree on a typo for shocked (scioccati)


Explanation:
After reading the article, especially that very sentence, it seems to me that "scioccati" - as some have suggested - fits perfectly in the context. Those who are too shocked by the new form of art find it more comfortable and "European" to wait in the - vain (ref. velleitarismi) - hope of a figurative return. Even that European makes you think of something more well-known, less prone to shock. Luckily, reads the close of the article, there is a new generation of artists who are immune to moralism and are ready to "un'operazione di riconoscimento".
I know it's always difficult when a translator has to suggest there is a typo in a text, but we sometimes need to take educated guesses, try to figure out what the author reasonably wanted to say. This one would be a sound and grounded suggestion, I think. Also because I honestly never heard the adjective "scoccato" referred to a person, nor could I find any reference of the sort in old dictionaries, or in the Accademia della Crusca's website. I'll look again, but I am rather confident that "scoccato" is always referred to particular objects (an arrow, a glare, a comment). If i find anything to the contrary, I'll let you know.

Danydani
Italy
Local time: 11:43
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search