omeni selvadeghi

English translation: uomini selvatici (wild/barbaric men)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Italian term or phrase:omeni selvadeghi
English translation:uomini selvatici (wild/barbaric men)
Entered by: xlationhouse

13:44 Jan 8, 2007
Italian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Folklore
Italian term or phrase: omeni selvadeghi
For an article in a tourist magazine about the Clock Tower in St. Mark's Square, Venice. The term, among others, is used to describe the "Moors" that strike the great bell on the hour with hammers.

From the few occurrences I could find (see links below), I guess these are sort of mythological, or imaginary, figures. Is this dialect? (I don't think it's Latin.) Here is the context:

Intanto, nella pancia della Torre, la macchina di Rainieri macina minuti ore giorni anni secoli; i due automi di bronzo – omeni selvadeghi, schiavi, progenitori come Caino e Abele? – incatenati alla loro ciclopica piastra di pietra annunciano al mondo lo scorrere delle ore, l’avvicendarsi delle stagioni...

http://www.aprisogni.it/laboratori/batarprimavera.html

http://thuler.net/phorum/read.php?1,2344,2344,quote=1

http://www.tellusfolio.it/index.php?prec=/index.php&cmd=v&le...
xlationhouse
United States
Local time: 04:51
uomini selvatici (wild/barbaric men)
Explanation:
I am not sure they are mythological figures, but this is the dialect form of "uomini selvatici", "barbaric/wild/uneducated men",a an expression that can very well apply to the Moors as seen by their Venetian enemies.

Hope this helps

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2007-01-09 12:01:12 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Glad I could help.

Raffaella
Selected response from:

Raffaella Panigada
Switzerland
Local time: 12:51
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone! I ended up keeping the term in dialect with "wild men" in parentheses.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2uomini selvatici (wild/barbaric men)
Raffaella Panigada
4rough men
Rita Bilancio
3 +1explanation
Chiara Righele
4savages/savage men
Rosanna Palermo


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
rough men


Explanation:
Of course: it's Venetian dialect.
Seems like they don't know what gentle manners are...
I hope you'll uderstand my explanation

Rita Bilancio
Local time: 12:51
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
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19 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
explanation


Explanation:
"omeni selvadeghi" is a dialect expressions (I'm from Veneto, so I'm sure), that literally translated into Italian means "uomini selvatichi/selvaggi" (kind of "wild men")

The adjective "selvatico" is often used with plants (or animals) that grow without human care or intervention

"omeni selvadeghi" usually refers to people that are not completely into society, they're maybe careless, maybe shabby and so on... They could live in the woods, and so be associated to elfs and spirits in the popular tradition, but I think in your text it mainly refers to the fact they are "physical men" (they're "automi, schiavi"), they're close to animals, they're only important because of their hammering on the bell...

That's how I understand it.
Hope it helps

Good luck, Chiara



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2007-01-08 14:05:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

obviously "uomini selvatici" - sorry for the typo, it was the influence of dialect!!!

Chiara Righele
Italy
Local time: 12:51
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lucia Colombo: living in the same region, speaking the same dialect
1 hr
  -> thanks colomba
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
savages/savage men


Explanation:

From dictionary.com:

sav·age Listen: [ svj ]
adj.


Not domesticated or cultivated; wild: savage beasts of the jungle.

Not civilized; barbaric: a savage people.

Ferocious; fierce: in a savage temper.
Savage \Sav"age\, n.
1. A human being in his native state of rudeness; one who is
untaught, uncivilized, or without cultivation of mind or
manners.


Vicious or merciless; brutal: a savage attack on a political rival. See Synonyms at cruel.

Lacking polish or manners; rude.
n.


A person regarded as primitive or uncivilized.

A person regarded as brutal, fierce, or vicious.

A rude person; a boor.


Rosanna Palermo
Local time: 07:51
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian, Native in EnglishEnglish
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
uomini selvatici (wild/barbaric men)


Explanation:
I am not sure they are mythological figures, but this is the dialect form of "uomini selvatici", "barbaric/wild/uneducated men",a an expression that can very well apply to the Moors as seen by their Venetian enemies.

Hope this helps

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2007-01-09 12:01:12 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Glad I could help.

Raffaella

Raffaella Panigada
Switzerland
Local time: 12:51
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone! I ended up keeping the term in dialect with "wild men" in parentheses.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  cocotier: ...yes but I would avoid "barbaric" which applies to (old) nordic people
52 mins
  -> Grazie, cocotier. Secondo quando mi ricordo io i Romani chiamavano "barbaro" chiunque non appartenesse al loro popolo, non mi sembra un'opzione da scartare a priori.

agree  Vladimir Micic
54 mins
  -> Grazie, Vladimir!
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