This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
  1. KudoZ™ Top
  2. Latin to English
  3. History

indomita colla virorum iugo

English translation: jugo is an ablative

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Latin term or phrase:indomita colla virorum iugo
English translation:jugo is an ablative
Entered by: Olga Cartlidge

03:21 Apr 25, 2010
Latin to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History / 15 century Latin
Latin term or phrase: indomita colla virorum iugo
Context: Fuit etenim hec Thoantis, Lemniadum regis, filia, eo evo
regnantis quo rabies illa subivit mulierum insule mentes, subtrahendi omnino

indomita colla virorum iugo - why is iugo in the Nominative and why is it not in the dictionaries ? I use Lebaigue - Gaffiot and some very good German dics. Thank you !
Olga Cartlidge
Local time: 10:09
jugo is an ablative
Explanation:
I haven't had the time to look at your text thoroughly, but I think the word is "jugum", neuter, meaning "the yoke" and your phrase is something like "the necks of men, never submitted to (by) the yoke"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2010-04-25 17:51:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry I hadn't looked properly at the text. It seems to me that Betussi is wrong and I understand it like Virginia Brown: juo is still IMO the ablative of jugum ("yoke, domination"):rabies the rage, subtrahendi to shield omnino completely indomita colla their necks jugo from the yoke virirum of the men (of their husbans). I hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2010-04-25 17:53:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry for all the typos: "juo" should be read as "jugo" and "virirum" as "virorum"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2010-04-25 19:40:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It seems we have a different interpretation of subtrahere, then

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day5 hrs (2010-04-26 08:48:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, "to shield" was a hasty translation of the deinition my Latin to French (Gaffiot) dictionary has for subtrahere (soustraire). "Take sth away"is better than "to shield".
About "indomita colla", I don't believe in the adverbial hypothesis.
Good luck for the rest of your work.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days15 hrs (2010-04-28 19:09:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

That was my point from the beginning. I think we are in agreement about everything except the meaning of subtrahendi.
Selected response from:

Sandra Mouton
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:09
Grading comment
Many thanks to all.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5iugo is dativ, not nominativ
Constantinos Faridis (X)
4 +1jugo is an ablative
Sandra Mouton


  

Answers


2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
iugo is dativ, not nominativ


Explanation:
Nbf. iugus, ī, m., Rossi inscr. Chr. I, 77. Quelle: Karl Ernst Georges: Ausführliches lateinisch-deutsches Handwörterbuch. Hannover 81918 (Nachdruck ...
www.zeno.org/Georges.../iugum

Constantinos Faridis (X)
Greece
Local time: 12:09
Native speaker of: Greek
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you, Constantinos. I am still a bit stuck here. Subtrahendi iugo virorum - ok. Where does indomita colla fit in then ?

Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
jugo is an ablative


Explanation:
I haven't had the time to look at your text thoroughly, but I think the word is "jugum", neuter, meaning "the yoke" and your phrase is something like "the necks of men, never submitted to (by) the yoke"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2010-04-25 17:51:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry I hadn't looked properly at the text. It seems to me that Betussi is wrong and I understand it like Virginia Brown: juo is still IMO the ablative of jugum ("yoke, domination"):rabies the rage, subtrahendi to shield omnino completely indomita colla their necks jugo from the yoke virirum of the men (of their husbans). I hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2010-04-25 17:53:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry for all the typos: "juo" should be read as "jugo" and "virirum" as "virorum"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2010-04-25 19:40:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It seems we have a different interpretation of subtrahere, then

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day5 hrs (2010-04-26 08:48:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, "to shield" was a hasty translation of the deinition my Latin to French (Gaffiot) dictionary has for subtrahere (soustraire). "Take sth away"is better than "to shield".
About "indomita colla", I don't believe in the adverbial hypothesis.
Good luck for the rest of your work.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days15 hrs (2010-04-28 19:09:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

That was my point from the beginning. I think we are in agreement about everything except the meaning of subtrahendi.

Sandra Mouton
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:09
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 24
Grading comment
Many thanks to all.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Many thanks for all the comments. Betussi is saying: nellquale entro una fantasia nelle donne al tutto di donar gli huomini et mettergli col collo sotto il giogo (= and put them with their neck(s) under a yoke). This agrees with one of the meanings of subtrahere quoted as "unterwerfen" i.e. subjugate. So would Betussi be wrong here ?

Asker: Whereas the widely acclaimed translation by Virgina Brown says: ... during whose reign the women of that island were seized by a mad desire to escape their husbands' tyranny.

Asker: I read it as - to bring into subjection the entirely unbridled necks of men // by a yoke // (= to settle scores with the men whose behaviour was totally out of order). ???

Asker: Where did you find the meaning of "to shield " for subtrahere, Sandra ? I am inclined to think it means "get away from " here and indomita colla must be an adverbial expression - in the spirit of freedom or smth along these lines.

Asker: It sounds like indomita colla depends on subtrahendi, Sandra. Move away their unbridled necks from the yoke of men i.e. remove their necks from the yoke imposed which would therefore set them free. I don t think there s any way round it.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Joseph Brazauskas
2 hrs
  -> Thanks you Joseph
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

Return to KudoZ list

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

See also:
ProZ.com term search
Search millions of term translations
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search