Feb 8, 2019 15:45
5 yrs ago
5 viewers *
German term
zur Zeit
German to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Aus einem Gebührenbescheid vom Januar 2016 für Benutzung in 2015:
"Gemäß §§ 2,3 der Satzung über die Erhebung von Gebühren für die Benutzung der Obdachlosenunterkünfte in der Landeshauptstadt Hannover IN DER ZUR ZEIT GÜLTIGEN FASSUNG war für die Unterkunft pro Bettplatz 5,30 Euro je Tag zu zahlen."
Ist hiermit "in the version CURRENTLY in effect" oder "in the version in effect AT THE TIME" gemeint?
"Gemäß §§ 2,3 der Satzung über die Erhebung von Gebühren für die Benutzung der Obdachlosenunterkünfte in der Landeshauptstadt Hannover IN DER ZUR ZEIT GÜLTIGEN FASSUNG war für die Unterkunft pro Bettplatz 5,30 Euro je Tag zu zahlen."
Ist hiermit "in the version CURRENTLY in effect" oder "in the version in effect AT THE TIME" gemeint?
Proposed translations
15 mins
Michael Martin, MA
United States
United States
Native in German
&
English
Specializes in field
United States
Creativity wins in the long run
Native in: German (Variant: Germany) 
, English (Variant: US)
Works in: German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
364
Selected
in the current version of the statute
I would assume it would have to be the current version from the perspective of the writer; in other words, whatever version was current at the time the author penned this passage.
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Note added at 19 mins (2019-02-08 16:05:48 GMT)
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Zur Zeit means "currently", not "at the time" or any other time. I don't think we have any interpretative leeway on this.
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Note added at 1 hr (2019-02-08 17:06:35 GMT)
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Beatrix:
There is no meaningful distinction between 2016 fees and 2015 fees. Whatever was a "current" fee schedule in 2015 was apparently still valid in 2016. If people were able to get a Bettplatz for 5.30 euros in 2015 under the ZUR ZEIT GÜLTIGEN FASSUNG, that clearly implies that the fee schedule hasn't changed. Zur Zeit always means now, not "zur damaligen Zeit."
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Note added at 19 mins (2019-02-08 16:05:48 GMT)
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Zur Zeit means "currently", not "at the time" or any other time. I don't think we have any interpretative leeway on this.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2019-02-08 17:06:35 GMT)
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Beatrix:
There is no meaningful distinction between 2016 fees and 2015 fees. Whatever was a "current" fee schedule in 2015 was apparently still valid in 2016. If people were able to get a Bettplatz for 5.30 euros in 2015 under the ZUR ZEIT GÜLTIGEN FASSUNG, that clearly implies that the fee schedule hasn't changed. Zur Zeit always means now, not "zur damaligen Zeit."
Note from asker:
| So does this mean the request for payment will be based on 2016 fees and not on the 2015 fees when the service was rendered? |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks for the additional info
"
7 mins
Tatijana Kostovska
Germany
Germany
Native in German
&
English
Specializes in field
Germany
BA Degree, native English and German
Native in: English , German
Works in: German to English, German to Macedonian, Macedonian to German, and 3 more.
in the current or valid version
Ich würde hier folgendes vorschalgen:
in the current version
oder
in the valid version
in the current version
oder
in the valid version
+3
14 mins
Kim Metzger
Mexico
Mexico
Native in English
Works in field
Mexico
Committed to Quality and Service
Native in: English (Variant: US) 
Works in: German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
1244
as amended at the time
in der jeweils gültigen Fassung - as amended https://www.proz.com/kudoz/german-to-english/law-contracts/3...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
writeaway
7 hrs
|
| agree |
Eleanore Strauss
: correct legalese... may sound strange if you're not familiar with this phrasing
1 day 22 hrs
|
| neutral |
Lancashireman
: According to BV's research, it hasn't been amended since 2005.
2 days 1 hr
|
| agree |
Margaret Marks
: but "as amended" is enough - yes, I don't come often.
2 days 4 hrs
|
|
Long time, no see, Margaret.
|
15 mins
in the version applicable at the material time
I am fairly certain that the answer on offer above is the wrong interpretation. Anyhow, let's see how the voting goes.
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Note added at 16 mins (2019-02-08 16:01:50 GMT)
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i.e. the answer at 7 mins
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Note added at 4 hrs (2019-02-08 19:52:14 GMT)
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Whether or not the rules have changed in the meantime, they cannot be applied retrospectively. There is no reason not to make that distinction clear.
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Note added at 16 mins (2019-02-08 16:01:50 GMT)
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i.e. the answer at 7 mins
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Note added at 4 hrs (2019-02-08 19:52:14 GMT)
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Whether or not the rules have changed in the meantime, they cannot be applied retrospectively. There is no reason not to make that distinction clear.
4 hrs
Ellen Kraus
Austria
Austria
Native in German
Specializes in field
Austria
more than thirty years of experience
Native in: German
Works in: Greek to German, English to German, Greek to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
308
in the version valid at that time
that´s my interpretation
Discussion
Though, whoever wrote this should've been paying more attention. The spelling reform was about two decades ago and this one is actually much easier to figure out if it is written as one word.
There is one exception and that is if you refer to a specific period in time. From my link below:
"Getrennt wird geschrieben, wenn eine bestimmte Zeit gemeint ist: »zur Zeit Goethes« oder »zur Zeit der Ernte«."
However, that's only true if "zur Zeit" isn't the only thing showing up. As said, it's one of those confusing exceptions (and yet, it's not like you don't have these kinds of oddities in English as well).
Best
Danke! Ich hatte in der letzten Zeit wenig Glück mit solchen Suchen gehabt und es daher in diesem Fall gar nicht erst versucht ... Und ja, ich hab hier auch gleich "Ordinance" verwendet.
Here is the Satzung über die Erhebung von Gebühren für die Benutzung der Obdachlosenunterkünfte in der Landeshauptstadt Hannover:
https://www.hannover.de/Media/01-DATA-Neu/Downloads/Landesha...
It's super easy to find in like a minute. It'll tell you right at the beginning that the law was last changed in 2005(!).
Best wishes
It's one of those rare instances where I don't think there is any pther interpretation. That is why Germans add "damals" for "that point in time":
"Das Vorhaben verstoße gegen § 42 BNatSchG (in der damals gültigen Fassung)."
https://www.bverwg.de/200911B7B46.11.0
Or something like "zum Zeitpunkt":
"Die Teilnahmegebühr versteht sich netto zzgl. der zum Zeitpunkt gültigen gesetzlichen Umsatzsteuer. Rechnungen sind innerhalb von 10 Tagen ab Rechnungsdatum ohne Abzug zur Zahlung fällig."
https://www.holzbau-kompetenz.de/agbs.html
I guess it looks a bit deceptive in this case:
"Bitte fragen Sie nach, ob das Angebot zur Zeit gültig ist!"
https://www.qkom.de/nicht-aergern-tauschen/
It does mean that you should ask whether the offer still stands (at the time you're asking). But it basically means you should please make sure the offer is still available (now).
[...]
Could it also mean "at that point in time"? (in der zur maßgebenden Zeit geltenden Fassung)
The "Satzung" was the same in 2015 and 2016, which is why they can say that. Does this answer your question?
"...in der zur Zeit..." always means at this point in time. The phrase "zur Zeit" is the old spelling of "zurzeit":
https://www.korrekturen.de/beliebte_fehler/zur_zeit.shtml
In effect or in operation might work too:
"Members are asked to instruct the Head of Legal and Democratic
Services to undertake the processes necessary to enact the
suspension of the byelaw, currently in operation, of the existing
Aberdeen City Council Drinking in Public Places Byelaw 2009 within
the boundaries of the Duthie Park for the following event"
https://committees.aberdeencity.gov.uk/documents/s24773/Rela...
PS
Though I certainly prefer "form" over "version." Also, I'm not sure statute is quite right; should be either by(e)laws or ordinance.
UK:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byelaw_(Vereinigtes_Königreich...
Ordinance (U.S.):
https://www.lectlaw.com/def2/o045.htm
Best