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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

ordre d\'enclenchement maintenu

English translation:

due to a present switch-on command (or order)

Added to glossary by BOB DE DENUS
Nov 16, 2011 01:34
12 yrs ago
4 viewers *
French term

ordre d'enclenchement maintenu

French to English Tech/Engineering Electronics / Elect Eng Electrical
Les disjoncteurs seront en outre munis des dispositifs suivants :
Dispositif d’anti-pompage : il a pour but d’interdire le ré-enclenchement du disjoncteur sur ordre d’enclenchement maintenu si le disjoncteur a déclenché sur défaut, de même, sur ordre de déclenchement maintenu devra interdire l’enclenchement.
Proposed translations (English)
4 -1 due to a present switch-on command (or order)
4 +1 will not close if a maintained Close command is applied after it tripped
4 ongoing 'close' command
4 -1 maintain the tripping order
4 -1 sustained interlock command
3 -1 sustained command by engagement
References
circuit breaker terms

Discussion

Johannes Gleim Nov 21, 2011:
With meirs This is the crucial point: The closing must be prevented in any case if the CB has been tripped by fault or by release order, still present (or active). That's what I understood and translated.
Tony M Nov 21, 2011:
@ Meir Yup, you got it!
meirs Nov 21, 2011:
More like a lockout feature A lockout relay remembers if the CB opened intentionally (operator or remote command) or due to a fault (tripped). In the latter case, closing is disabled - not allowed in any way (momentary or maintained command) - until the lockout relay is reset.
Tony M Nov 21, 2011:
@ Meirs Quite!

As I understand it, all this means is that even if the 'on' command continues to be present, the circuit-breaker will refuse to turn back on if there is still a fault condition; so logical, so obvious to a human operator, but requires special logic to make sure it happens properly in an automated system! ;-)

To me, the whole problem here lies in how best to convey the idea that the 'on' (= 'close') command keeps on being given, depsite there still being a fault condition.
Tony M Nov 21, 2011:
@ Johannes No, that's just the problem, Johannes: in normal, natural EN, those two things are NOT identical, and it is dangerous and unwieldy to attempt to use them interchangeably in this sort of context. I'm afraid "the first wording does not looks being clearer" [sic]
meirs Nov 21, 2011:
@Johannes We say that the a CB receives a Close or an Open command. It (the command signal) can be momentary (a short pulse) or maintained. Bottom line - it's enough to require an anti-pumping feature.
Johannes Gleim Nov 21, 2011:
In this case 'due to a present switch-on command' is identical to 'due to a switch-on command present'. Both can be supplemented by 'if the CB has tripped (released, disconnected)', but acc. MHO the first wording looks being clearer.
meirs Nov 21, 2011:
not to mention the noun present - versus past and future
present - gift (FR cadeau)
Tony M Nov 21, 2011:
'present' I am taking the liberty of discussing this term here, as Johannes has raised an interesting point that the peer comment space is unfortunately too small to reply to properly.

'Present' (as an adjective) is a word that is commonly mis-used by speakers of FR and DE — no doubt other languages too, but I can only speak of those of which I have some experience; it is in many ways a 'false friend', since it may be used to translate foreign words belonging to two distinct meaning groups:

present, as distinct from absent

and

present, as in now, not some other time.

Sadly, these arguably incorrect usages have crept into technical (and other!) language within the EU, but IMHO have not yet become truly accepted EN usage.

When the adjective 'present' is used attributively, preceding the noun it qualifies, it almost always suggests the second, temporal meaning:

'the present situation'

'a real and present danger'

When the first meaning is intended (preesence rather than absence), it is much more commonly found used predicatively (after the noun):

'this species is present in great numbers'
'the signal present on pin 1 of the IC'

Proposed translations

-1
1 day 15 hrs
French term (edited): sur ordre d'enclenchement maintenu
Selected

due to a present switch-on command (or order)

EN internal triggering
triggering obtained when the signal which controls the time base is supplied by an internal circuit acted upon by the observed quantity
FR déclenchement interne
déclenchement obtenu quand le signal auquel est asservie la base de temps est produit par un circuit interne sur lequel agit la grandeur observée
http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&iev...

EN closing
the closing of a circuit-breaker by either manual or automatic control of protective devices
NOTE – The expression "closing" of a network item (line, transformer) in fact means closing of the associated circuit-breakers.
FR enclenchement
fermeture d'un disjoncteur sous l'action des dispositifs de commande ou de protection
NOTE – Par extension, l'enclenchement d'un élément de réseau (ligne, transformateur) se dit pour l'enclenchement du ou des disjoncteurs associés.
http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&iev...

EN automatic switching on
the property of an equipment having a forced characteristic such that the equipment is switched on automatically
FR enclenchement automatique
propriété d'un matériel ayant une caractéristique forcée telle que le matériel est enclenché automatiquement
http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&iev...

Les interrupteurs sont des appareils simples et relativement économiques qui servent à l'exploitation normale des réseaux électriques : ils sont manœuvrés sur ordre d'un opérateur et permettent d'établir ou d'interrompre le courant dans un élément du réseau.
:
Les disjoncteurs sont donc des interrupteurs à haute performance capables de manœuvrer sur ordre d'un opérateur ou d'un dispositif automatique de protection détectant les situations de défaut.
:
v Physique de la coupure du courant de court-circuit dans les disjoncteurs à vide,
Revue ABB - 5/1993 - EDGAR DULLNI
v Measurements and modelling in the current zero region of vacuum circuit-breakers for high current interruption,
http://ms.schneider-electric.be/Main/CT/ct198FR.pdf

Préférentiellement, on prévoit qu'en réponse à un ordre de fermeture consécutif à l'ordre d'ouverture, le moteur entraîne l'organe primaire de la position d'arrêt intermédiaire à la position fermée.
:
Pour accélérer l'ouverture sur ordre d'ouverture, on préfère donc, suivant une variante du premier mode de réalisation illustrée sur la figure 13, transmettre l'ordre d'ouverture directement à l'unité logique qui actionne alors un actionneur 57 faisant pivoter le levier de verrouillage 62 pour libérer la palette 58 et assurer le déclenchement du mécanisme.
http://ip.com/patapp/EP1331658A1

15. Procédé selon l'une quelconque des revendications 10 à 14, caractérisé en ce qu'en réponse à un ordre de fermeture consécutif à l'ordre d'ouverture, le moteur (82) entraîne l'organe primaire de la position d'arrêt intermédiaire à la position fermée.
http://ip.com/patapp/EP1331658A1

15. Process according to any one of claims 10 to 14, characterized in that in response to a closing order subsequent to the opening order, the motor (82) drives the primary member from the intermediate stopping position to the closed position.
http://ip.com/patent/EP1331658B1

EN switching command
a command used to change the state of two-state operational equipment from one state to the other state
Examples: "Switch-on/Switch-off"; "Open/Close".
FR commande de commutation
commande qui provoque le passage d'un état à l'autre d'un organe pouvant prendre deux états
Exemples: "Enclencher/déclencher"; "ouvrir/fermer".

There are several possiblities to translate "maintenu" (sense of being present for longer times): present, ongoing, pending, upcoming.
"sur ordre" can be translated by due to, owing to, by virtue of.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 days (2011-11-21 17:44:54 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

The internet has a lot of examples for use of either „signal present“ or „present signal“. The order differs always depending on the use: compounds, questions, passive constructions or relating to a subject by “present on”. See for instance:

B: connector enabled but inactive (no video signal present on connector)
B : connecteur activé mais inactif (aucun signal vidéo présent sur le connecteur)
cineversum.com
http://www.linguee.com/english-french/search?query=signal pr...

Is carrier signal present at output of double side band suppressed carrier?
Answer:
No, the carrier signal is not present at the output of double side band suppressed carrier. That is what suppressed carrier means.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_carrier_signal_present_at_outpu...

I suspect (and want to confirm), that the "Amplifier Present" signal that is sent to the head unit is done to bypass the amplifier built into the head unit, and only provide low-level outputs.
http://www.gpona.com/forums/car-audio-electronics-f8/monsoon...

With further development in the vehicle sector – especially introduction of ABS – the sensor circuitry is now present on most vehicles so that a variety of input data is available which could be used for development of a brake force display.
http://www.bast.de/nn_42642/DE/Publikationen/Download-Berich...

This consists of three signals – card present, clock (strobe), and data. The card present signal must go low before the start of data transmission.
http://rfid-reader.googlecode.com/files/Open%20Format.pdf&sa...

Here is an example. We assume that :
1. The effective bandwidth of an RF receiver is 500MHz, we note B=500MHz.
2. The sum of the bandwidths of all signals present in the full acquisition band, is no more than 200kHz, we note W=200kHz.
We concluded that the ratio between the present signal bandwidth (W) and the effective bandwidth (B) is apparently : B/W = 2500.
https://wiki.ldv.ei.tum.de/tiki-index.php?page=Compressive S...
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : This word order with 'present' sounds stilted / unnatural in EN; and misses out the key technical point that it is a command that is continuously present — that is crucial to the meaning of the whole expression. Please see discussion post above.
3 days 14 hrs
A present order/command means it is continuously present, similar to your 'ongoing'. During my 40 years of engineering activity I encountered 'present' more often than 'ongoing'.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you"
-1
6 mins

sustained command by engagement

/
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : Although 'sustained command' could well work, I'm afraid the 'by engagement' bit is quite wrong here.
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
15 mins

maintain the tripping order

Is a comma missing between 'ordre d’enclenchement' AND 'maintenu '?

Dispositif d’anti-pompage: the device is intended to prevent the circuit breaker switching order being reset, to maintain it when the circuit breaker trips on a fault, and to prevent continued engagement when a trip occurs."
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : Would not make technical sense in the context given.
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
5 hrs

ongoing 'close' command

It means that if the c-b has tripped out for a real reason, it must ignore a command to re-close (these are remote-controlled types), even if that command continues to be given; this might be due to a system or design fault, for example — or of course, operator error!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 heures (2011-11-16 07:07:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

There are other options for 'maintained', including of course Hélène's suggestion of 'sustained'; 'continued / continuin / continuous' might also be avenues worth exploring; the point is that this 'close' command would usually be only a short-lived thing, just long enough to reset the c-b after a circuit fault has been cleared; however, if for some reason the system persists in sending the 'close' command, even though the fault is still present, clearly this must be ignored.

We see this sort of thing with our rural electricity supply here, which come via overhead cables, very susceptible to falling branches etc. After a power cut, about 30 secs later the system attempts to re-engage, so the power comes on again — but if the fault is still present, it immediatley goes off agaian and stays off :-(
Something went wrong...
-1
10 hrs

sustained interlock command

-

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2011-11-16 11:47:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Examples:
http://www.thalesgroup.com/Portfolio/Security/D3S_control_de...
Vital Remote Control for Relay and Electronic Interlocking (Command 900).....

http://www.progeny.co.uk/Interlock-Controllers.aspx

The Progeny range of electronic interlock systems for doors including or ....



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlock_(engineering)

Interlocking is a method of preventing undesired states in a state machine, which in a general sense can include any electrical, electronic, or mechanical device or system.

Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : 'interlock' is the wrong kind of idea here for 'enclenchement' — 'interlock' implies a degre if interdependence between 2 systems, which is not precisely what this is describing.
59 mins
Something went wrong...
+1
5 days

will not close if a maintained Close command is applied after it tripped

full statement in wording understandable by EE (Electrical Engineers)
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : That's the one! Exactly!
18 mins
Thanks !
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

4 hrs
Reference:

circuit breaker terms

A circuit breaker receives and executes commands (not orders). Commands are:
Open - intentionally open the circuit (stop normal current from flowing)
Close - intentionally close the circuit (start current to flow)
Trip - break (open on) a fault - a short circuit (excessively high current) condition
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