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Zeitrichtwert

Glossary entry

Deutsch term or phrase:

Herrschaftsbildung

Englisch translation:

ruling entity/ruling establishment/dominion

Added to glossary by Craig Meulen
Mar 4, 2015 10:27
9 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Deutsch term

Herrschaftsbildung

Deutsch > Englisch Geistes- und Sozialwissenschaften Geschichte
Bis heute ist das Fürstentum von XXY eine der berühmten Herrschaftsbildungen (des Landes).

The author of the text doesn't like my suggestion:
Even today, the Principality of XXY is regarded as one of the most famous ruling establishments in (the country’s) history.

So I'm looking for another alternative to "ruling establishment". We're talking about (the country) which is much wider than the area XXY where this principality was, but it now exists as a country covering an area where there was in general a lot of variation in who had power over which region and what form of government that was, sometimes subject to external powers that had invaded etc. etc. So the world "-bildung" has to cover ALL of those!
Proposed translations (Englisch)
4 +2 Dominion
3 reigning ( or ruling) establishment (or body)
3 Dynastic structure
3 seat of power
2 ruling class formation

Discussion

Craig Meulen (asker) Mar 5, 2015:
Clue 3 My new profile photo and my working languages ;-)
Lancashireman Mar 5, 2015:
Guess the principality Clue 1: We're talking about (the country) which is much wider than the area XXY where this principality was, but it now exists as a country covering an area where there was in general a lot of variation in who had power over which region and what form of government that was, sometimes subject to external powers that had invaded etc. etc.
Clue 2: This principality existed in one period of the past history of one part of the country, which now has a different form of government.
Craig Meulen (asker) Mar 4, 2015:
Thanks Thanks Horst - That is a very useful comment.

Wendy: My somewhat 'coy' context doesn't make it clear that this principality existed in one period of the past history of one part of the country, which now has a different form of government.
Wendy Streitparth Mar 4, 2015:
Maybe you could change it completely? Along the lines of "To this very day the Principality of XXY plays a dominating/significant role in the power structure of (the country)."
Horst Huber (X) Mar 4, 2015:
Just to parse, "Herrschaftsbildung" denotes the form that rule, rulership or lordship takes, the way it is institutionalised. A "ruling entity" is one that predominates over other "entities", which is probably not intended here.
Craig Meulen (asker) Mar 4, 2015:
discretion is the better part of valour Hi phil

I'm sorry, but that's my decision and I, too, often complain about lack of context, so sorry if you think my extensive explanation paragraph is too little.

The sentence is actually the opening sentence of an academic article on "The Rise of the Principality of XXY":

And the "most famous" here is me "reading between the spaces" of the author་ since I'm familiar with the subject matter and know that "one of the most famous" is also true in this case.
philgoddard Mar 4, 2015:
You've mistranslated "berühmten". It doesn't mean "most famous" -that's "berühmtesten". Trouble is, you've given us so little context it's hard to know how to translate it. It would be useful to know what it says before and after this, and I don't see any point in concealing the name.
Lancashireman Mar 4, 2015:
Entity Drama | Horror | Thriller
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1842356/

Reptilians... shape-shifting aliens control Earth by taking on human form and gaining political power to manipulate our societies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilians

With EK MUC: I just hope your clients will like it, too.
EK Yokohama Mar 4, 2015:
"ruling entities" ... sounds very suitable to me. I just hope your clients will like it, too.
Craig Meulen (asker) Mar 4, 2015:
entity Hehe, I think I've just come up with a suggestion myself: ruling entities

Here's a link where is is used in a very similiar context:
https://books.google.de/books?id=pZS4L6hMGUUC&lpg=PA81&ots=V...
Craig Meulen (asker) Mar 4, 2015:
-bildung ggf. Gebilde Thanks Elisabeth. There is another instance of the same term in the text where the emphasis is on the 'emerging'. And even in this sentence I like your phrasing.

Regards 'ruling establishment' I think the author is using '-bildung' here more in the sense of 'Gebilde' - the 'entity' that is formed to rule. See my comment below to the 'domain' answer.
Craig Meulen (asker) Mar 4, 2015:
coy It's an unpublished paper so I don't like to post anything that identifies my client.
Lancashireman Mar 4, 2015:
ruling institutions But hard to say without knowing which country or principality. Why so coy?
Elisabeth Kissel Mar 4, 2015:
Just a simple suggestion to amend your own translation to read something like: ...one of the most famous ruling establishment to emerge (out of this country)...
I think that brings out the sense of "-bildung".
Linguee has a reference that includes "emerging power structures" for Herrschaftsbildung. Maybe that would be another approach or an idea you could somehow incorporate?

Proposed translations

+2
3 Min.
Selected

Dominion

At varying times different groups held dominion over shifting territories; 'dominion' in the sense of ' held sway over', i.e, 'ruled';

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2015-03-04 12:27:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Dominion means actual places or territory i.e, "the King's dominions", it also means 'holding the rule of law over' similar to 'jurisdiction' in its literal and metaphoric meanings, and in common parlanceoften means 'to hold sway over' , i.e, to be in a position of power or influence over someone, some area; that's why I think it fits here.
Note from asker:
I have 'domain' for 'Herrschaftsbereich', which could also be 'dominion'. But for '-bildung' I think the author is referring to the power structure more than the region. A word that covers all of 'ruling family', 'ruling house', 'secular ruler', 'imperial government'....
Yes, sorry, didn't mean to imply that your answer was unsuitable in general.
Peer comment(s):
agree Nicola Wood : Sounds good to me
22 Min.
Thanks
agree Sam Townshend : My initial thought was 'power structures' but that's close to the OP's choice; thus is much better for conveying the multitude of smaller powers within a larger structure
34 Min.
Thanks
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I'm choosing this answer because it inspired me to use the word "dominion" in my translation, although mainly for "Herrschaftsbereich". I ended up writing "ruling entity" in the sentence in question and using expressions around "structure" and "formation" in other places."
4 Stunden

reigning ( or ruling) establishment (or body)

......
Note from asker:
Thanks Donald, I'll take that as a confirmation that my "ruling establishment" is indeed used by us native speakers (although my client has disputed that).
Something went wrong...
9 Stunden

ruling class formation

or 'founding of a ruling class'
i.e. the process of crystallization of an upper crust, following its genesis
Something went wrong...
1 Tag 38 Min.

Dynastic structure

is perhaps another way of referring to the ruling establishment;
Note from asker:
Yes, some of the Herrschaftsbildungen are definitely dynastic structures.
Something went wrong...
21 Stunden

seat of power

If its what I think it is!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2015-03-05 12:20:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

@ Craig: Maybe seat of influence is more appropriate. If you can have a seat of learning, why not a seat of power? I would define it in a similar way to power base:
"a source of authority or influence, especially in politics, founded on support by an organized body of voters, ethnic minority, economic class, etc.: "
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/power base
Note from asker:
I'm curious, how would you define "seat of power"? It could be suitable (although I always chuckle 'cos I immediately think of a king's trousers...)
Something went wrong...
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