Sep 18, 2017 18:41
6 yrs ago
French term
accentué
Non-PRO
French to English
Art/Literary
Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
ancient art
Hi again!
DOC: 1907 Museum catalog of ancient Egyptian mirrors. Catalog entry.
CONTEXT: 44078. Engraved mirror disk. -- Bronze. De l'autre côté de l'ordinaire table d'offrandes, posée devant la déesse, se tient une jeune femme dont les formes très ***accentuées*** se profilent dans la transparence d'un long vêtement à franges; elle fait l'offrande du miroir à manche coudé. La netteté du dessin, à défaut de la correction, rend ce disque intéressant. Though this is NOT the same mirror, it's the same idea -- you can see the long transparent gown on the woman on the right. http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/coll...
ATTEMPT: On the other side of the customary table of offerings, which is before the goddess, stands a young woman whose very ***exaggerated** forms show through her long, transparent, fringed garment; she makes an offering of a mirror with a bent handle.
ISSUE: Not sure of exaggerated works here, makes her sound like Dolly Parton! Could this just be: unambiguous? emphatic? forms? accentuated, prevalent, prominent forms? Per previous advice about French hyperbole, I might be able to leave out "très".
Thanks in advance for any opinions!
DOC: 1907 Museum catalog of ancient Egyptian mirrors. Catalog entry.
CONTEXT: 44078. Engraved mirror disk. -- Bronze. De l'autre côté de l'ordinaire table d'offrandes, posée devant la déesse, se tient une jeune femme dont les formes très ***accentuées*** se profilent dans la transparence d'un long vêtement à franges; elle fait l'offrande du miroir à manche coudé. La netteté du dessin, à défaut de la correction, rend ce disque intéressant. Though this is NOT the same mirror, it's the same idea -- you can see the long transparent gown on the woman on the right. http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/coll...
ATTEMPT: On the other side of the customary table of offerings, which is before the goddess, stands a young woman whose very ***exaggerated** forms show through her long, transparent, fringed garment; she makes an offering of a mirror with a bent handle.
ISSUE: Not sure of exaggerated works here, makes her sound like Dolly Parton! Could this just be: unambiguous? emphatic? forms? accentuated, prevalent, prominent forms? Per previous advice about French hyperbole, I might be able to leave out "très".
Thanks in advance for any opinions!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | strongly delineated |
Catherine Demaison-Doherty
|
| 4 +2 | accentuated |
philgoddard
|
| 3 | quite exaggerated |
Christopher Crockett
|
Proposed translations
+2
5 hrs
Catherine Demaison-Doherty
Australia
Australia
Native in French
&
English
Specializes in field
Australia
French & German to English Translator
Native in: English 
, French
Works in: French to English, German to English
Selected
strongly delineated
Or "very clearly defined"...
It's a shame we can't see the picture, but still, I imagine that the woman's figure is strongly defined and visible under the garment. She doesn't necessarily have to be of ample proportions.
It's a shame we can't see the picture, but still, I imagine that the woman's figure is strongly defined and visible under the garment. She doesn't necessarily have to be of ample proportions.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions and explanations. You're all in the field so it's a hard choice. I think strongly delineated goes best with profiler."
+2
1 hr
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
61
accentuated
Since it has an exact English equivalent, you might as well use it. It's not the same as exaggerated.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
JohnMcDove
: Also perhaps, "pronounced, marked..." "highlighted"
3 hrs
|
| agree |
DNHillson
15 hrs
|
| neutral |
Christopher Crockett
: That's posible, but my inherently perverse nature leads me to think otherwise --the reasons for which cannot be summarized in 255 characters.
17 hrs
|
18 hrs
Christopher Crockett
Native in English
Specializes in field
M.A., Ph.D. Historian/Art Historian
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
46
quite exaggerated
I'm initially torn between very/strongly accentuated" (thanks, Phil) and "quite exaggerated" (and we leave B.'s "très" out at our peril, which is a clue to the probable translation here).
To my mind/ear, the English "accentuated" suggests that an emphasis is placed on a particular form (part of the anatomy) by some technical means of representation (emphasis of line, hatching, whatever); thus it is conceivable that a body part (for example) could be accentuated without being exaggerated --or the reverse.
But, as is my Nature, and quite perversely --based on the B.M. example you link to-- I'm not sure that [Eng.] "accentuated" is what B. means in this instance.
Evidently, we are dealing here with a "standard" (suggested by B.'s use of "ordinaire") iconography of what is most likely a well-known liturgical scene: the goddess (or her cult statue**) is being presented with offerings (placed on a table on mirror #44078, but not in the B.M. exemplar) and an attendant or servant ("une jeune femme" and note the lack of a wig --a sign of rank) holds a mirror before her (B. calls it an offering, but is it so that she can view herself, or so that the statue can be illuminated by the reflected light of the Divine Ra? Who knows).
[*The goddess would be thought of as being essentially inherent and present in any sculptural representation of Her, so the distinction between the two is not relevant, especially during a liturgical ceremony.]
I see that the mirror in the B.M. exemplar is of a type which doesn't seem to be in B.'s catalog --it is on a rather substantial stand rather than having a handle --which suggests to me that it is an important piece of liturgical furniture, capable of being more or less "permanently" placed, rather than being merely an "article de toilette." (Also perhaps noteworthy is the fact that the disk of the mirror at the top of its stand rests within a half circle [="the horizon"], which is the hieroglyph for the rising sun, a supreme manifestation of the Divine Ra.)
In both mirrors the "attendant" wears a diaphanous gown, and the only evident "exaggeration" visible in the representation of her on the B.M. mirror is in the rather bulbous form of the thighs --and (note) their form is not "accentuated" by any special change in the technique.
In my "mare's nest" reconstruction (blissfully unencumbered by any actual knowledge of what the hell is going on), what is being represented here is a customary liturgical ceremony which takes place in the temple dedicated to this particular goddess (note the exterior architectural "frame"), during which She --in the form of a statue within a shrine (the inner architectural frame)-- is presented with offerings, as well as with a mirror with which she is illuminated by the Divine light of Ra.
This ceremony would be performed on days which were particularly sacred to this particular goddess, and the role of the "attendant" would be played by a major priestess ('servant") of the cult.
The quite exaggerated, bulbous thighs are not there by accident, but rather they are "attributes" (like the attributes of, say, a medieval saint) and would have some place --and symbolic significance-- within the whole, complex and multi-faceted fabric of the myth which surrounds this particular goddess.
Anyway, that's my $o.o2, and I'm sticking (or stuck) with it.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2017-09-19 13:58:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It occurs to me that I probably used a term which is not familiar to some (though it certainly should be, it's so frequently appropriate). Here's the OED:
MARE'S NEST, n.
1. Originally in "to have found (also spied) a mare's nest": to imagine that one has discovered something wonderful, which in fact does not exist. Hence: an illusory discovery, esp. one that is much vaunted and betrays foolish credulity.
2. An untidy or confused mess; a muddle; a misconception.
----------
I find myself using it all the time.
To my mind/ear, the English "accentuated" suggests that an emphasis is placed on a particular form (part of the anatomy) by some technical means of representation (emphasis of line, hatching, whatever); thus it is conceivable that a body part (for example) could be accentuated without being exaggerated --or the reverse.
But, as is my Nature, and quite perversely --based on the B.M. example you link to-- I'm not sure that [Eng.] "accentuated" is what B. means in this instance.
Evidently, we are dealing here with a "standard" (suggested by B.'s use of "ordinaire") iconography of what is most likely a well-known liturgical scene: the goddess (or her cult statue**) is being presented with offerings (placed on a table on mirror #44078, but not in the B.M. exemplar) and an attendant or servant ("une jeune femme" and note the lack of a wig --a sign of rank) holds a mirror before her (B. calls it an offering, but is it so that she can view herself, or so that the statue can be illuminated by the reflected light of the Divine Ra? Who knows).
[*The goddess would be thought of as being essentially inherent and present in any sculptural representation of Her, so the distinction between the two is not relevant, especially during a liturgical ceremony.]
I see that the mirror in the B.M. exemplar is of a type which doesn't seem to be in B.'s catalog --it is on a rather substantial stand rather than having a handle --which suggests to me that it is an important piece of liturgical furniture, capable of being more or less "permanently" placed, rather than being merely an "article de toilette." (Also perhaps noteworthy is the fact that the disk of the mirror at the top of its stand rests within a half circle [="the horizon"], which is the hieroglyph for the rising sun, a supreme manifestation of the Divine Ra.)
In both mirrors the "attendant" wears a diaphanous gown, and the only evident "exaggeration" visible in the representation of her on the B.M. mirror is in the rather bulbous form of the thighs --and (note) their form is not "accentuated" by any special change in the technique.
In my "mare's nest" reconstruction (blissfully unencumbered by any actual knowledge of what the hell is going on), what is being represented here is a customary liturgical ceremony which takes place in the temple dedicated to this particular goddess (note the exterior architectural "frame"), during which She --in the form of a statue within a shrine (the inner architectural frame)-- is presented with offerings, as well as with a mirror with which she is illuminated by the Divine light of Ra.
This ceremony would be performed on days which were particularly sacred to this particular goddess, and the role of the "attendant" would be played by a major priestess ('servant") of the cult.
The quite exaggerated, bulbous thighs are not there by accident, but rather they are "attributes" (like the attributes of, say, a medieval saint) and would have some place --and symbolic significance-- within the whole, complex and multi-faceted fabric of the myth which surrounds this particular goddess.
Anyway, that's my $o.o2, and I'm sticking (or stuck) with it.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2017-09-19 13:58:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It occurs to me that I probably used a term which is not familiar to some (though it certainly should be, it's so frequently appropriate). Here's the OED:
MARE'S NEST, n.
1. Originally in "to have found (also spied) a mare's nest": to imagine that one has discovered something wonderful, which in fact does not exist. Hence: an illusory discovery, esp. one that is much vaunted and betrays foolish credulity.
2. An untidy or confused mess; a muddle; a misconception.
----------
I find myself using it all the time.
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