Sep 20, 2017 14:01
6 yrs ago
English term
Nunation
Non-PRO
English to Arabic
Art/Literary
Linguistics
I have the following translation & pronunciation, so I only need the same word, but written with ALL diacritics everywhere (not just some & not just on some parts of a word).
تنوين
tanwīn
Explanations in English, please! Except for any examples mentioned, which should also have ALL diacritics.
Thanks.
تنوين
tanwīn
Explanations in English, please! Except for any examples mentioned, which should also have ALL diacritics.
Thanks.
Proposed translations
(Arabic)
| 5 +1 | تَنْوينٌ |
Mohammed Majeed
|
| 5 +1 | تَنْوْينٌ |
Mohammad Najim
|
Proposed translations
+1
8 mins
Selected
تَنْوينٌ
/tanwi:nun/
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Note added at 1 day2 hrs (2017-09-21 16:18:28 GMT)
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Yes, it is remains tanwin. So, you need تَنْوينْ /tanwi:n/ or /tanween/. Isn't it?
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Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2017-09-21 18:03:33 GMT)
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I mean is that what you meant?
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Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2017-09-21 18:28:46 GMT)
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Yes, grammatically, all diacritics should match the way we speak. But, the thing with us (I mean as Arab speaking people), we tend to not use these diacritics when we write email, messages and even Arab news papers does not use diacritics because we know them. We only use them very rarely, like 10% and skip 90% because we take them for granted, meaning that we all know how they work. These diacritics are mainly used in religious literature.
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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2017-09-21 22:25:04 GMT) Post-grading
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Ok well I'm impressed; you've demonstrated that you know a great deal.
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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2017-09-21 22:26:13 GMT) Post-grading
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pleasure
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Note added at 1 day2 hrs (2017-09-21 16:18:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Yes, it is remains tanwin. So, you need تَنْوينْ /tanwi:n/ or /tanween/. Isn't it?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2017-09-21 18:03:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I mean is that what you meant?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2017-09-21 18:28:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Yes, grammatically, all diacritics should match the way we speak. But, the thing with us (I mean as Arab speaking people), we tend to not use these diacritics when we write email, messages and even Arab news papers does not use diacritics because we know them. We only use them very rarely, like 10% and skip 90% because we take them for granted, meaning that we all know how they work. These diacritics are mainly used in religious literature.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2017-09-21 22:25:04 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
Ok well I'm impressed; you've demonstrated that you know a great deal.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2017-09-21 22:26:13 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
pleasure
Note from asker:
| Since nunation adds an -UN to the root word, then the root word still remains tanwīn, doesn't it? See pronunciation on the first line here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunation Since -UN is an addition and NOT the base word, I only need the base word, when I ask for the translation of a word into Arabic with diacritics. |
| So can I have just tanwīn, but with all diacritics written in Arabic? -UN is a modification, based on position in a sentence, but there is no sentence here, just a word by itself, so I just need the base word or root word. If strictly speaking this is correct, then I intend to speak strictly every time, I ask for a word by itself. Hence no modification wanted, thanks. Just tanwīn with ALL diacritics, please! |
| And although you CAN pronounce additional modifications in a sentence, when no diacritics are used, when it comes to a fully vocalized sentence with ALL diacritics marked clearly, then at that point = WITH the diacritics there should be no option, no CAN, but to read everything precisely, as directed by the given diacritics. When diacritics are given = spelled out, then the speech has to MATCH the writing. So the freedom of the speaker to pronounce it, as he prefers, ends right there, when the diacritics are THERE. Correct me, if I'm wrong! |
| Yes, thank you. Pure tanwin تَنْوينْ is, what I needed. |
| I have learned a lot, since I started analyzing the word "lugha". I knew about the 2 writing methods in Arabic: with & without vowels/diacritics. But I didn't know about nunation and how deeply engrained this strong habit of modifying the root words is. And I have learned, that this modifying habit comes from the sometimes complicated grammar. |
| Nonetheless, my point was, that when there are no diacritics, then you could say, you just know all the words, but not always, because sometimes there are 2 ways to pronounce a consonants-only word (abjad), which results in 2 different meanings. Okay, from the context you might be able to guess, which meaning is meant, but again: not always. There are examples on Wikipedia and I'm sure, on other websites, as well. |
| So my point is, that there was a reason, why they decided to make it clear in religious texts, how precisely to pronounce each word and I prefer that a 100 times over dropping all diacritics and just knowing it all. They were smart, because they wanted to avoid misunderstandings and arguments right from the start, so they included the diacritics and made people learn them. I strongly applaud that. And I've heard, that in schools, where they teach grammar to kids, they also use all diacritics. And I honestly hope, that one day even the newspapers, books and other media will be forced to use all diacritics, if they want to project high standards. But even until then, my point remains, that once you're given all diacritics, your freedom to pronounce it several ways ends, because you have to follow only one way: the way with the diacritics. I love them! I just don't understand all of them yet, but slowly... |
| Okay, so I'm going to close this question now and I thank you very much for all the effort, you also put in, not just me. |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks."
+1
10 mins
Mohammad Najim
Palestine
Palestine
Native in English
&
Arabic
Works in field
Palestine
Native in: Arabic (Variants: Kuwaiti, Lebanese, Palestinian, Saudi , Jordanian, Iraqi, UAE, Egyptian, Syrian) 
, English
Works in: English to Arabic, Arabic to English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
تَنْوْينٌ
-
Note from asker:
| I see, you did the same thing with the modification -UN, so see my comments above regarding nunation of a single word! |
| But in your case I'm interested to know, why you added another sukūn on top of the WAW (w)? What is the role of THIS sukūn here? And which is the more correct, the officially correct way to write tanwīn as a standalone/base/root word with ALL diacritics in Arabic? |
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