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malcogida
micropoco
Feb 8, 2019 22:32
5 yrs ago
11 viewers *
Spanish term

Todes

Spanish to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters Zarzuela
"¡Buenas tardes a todos y todas! Y todes."

This is the spoken part of a modern version of a traditional zarzuela. But I haven't classified this as from that field - the sentence could occur in any number of dialogues.

I am well aware of the meaning - a gender-neutral usage, but am scratching my head over how to render this into English.

I write British English but would prefer this to be not very noticeably so. Indeed, if we find a suitable solution with a US ring to it, that may well be fine.

Those being addressed are an audience of young adults.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +5 everybody
3 +1 and enbies
3 and sundry
3 Y'all
2 And LGTB(s) / and everybody else besides those categories / and peoples of any genre (sex?)

Discussion

Noni Gilbert Riley (asker) Feb 17, 2019:
Don't know who to give credit to...! In the end, I used "NBs" - it was Patinba's posting of enby which brought me to the Reddit link including that - thanks Yvonne. I hope that in the context I am using it, it doesn't offend anyone. It had to be an "appellation" rather than a description, and it had to be short.

Later in the conversation, the person told to use "todes" decides to say "tol mundo", to avoid the dilemma, and at that point I used "y'all".
Juan Jacob Feb 9, 2019:
@Noni ¡No se vale, el colega puso dos veces "y'all"! Trampa. Jeje.
Noni Gilbert Riley (asker) Feb 9, 2019:
@David Rixham Ha ha, "y'all" is the option I have in place for the time being - great minds think alike?!
James A. Walsh Feb 9, 2019:
"And everyone in between" I've heard this option quite a lot, so thought I'd mention it. See here for example https://www.buzzfeed.com/elliewoodward/people-loved-ruby-ros...
Noni Gilbert Riley (asker) Feb 9, 2019:
Enby, from Patinba I was excited when I read this - I hadn't encountered the term before - but it turns out it refers only to non-binary and is therefore not the inclusive term I'm looking for. But thank you Patinba for pointing to this term that I was unaware of. Love the learning curve of translating.
Juan Jacob Feb 9, 2019:
También aparece... ...por ahí el "elles" por ellos y ellas. Arg. Poco durará, afortunadamente.
JohnMcDove Feb 8, 2019:
These are good solutions. I think you should put them as an answer. (I didn´t see it when I put mine...)
Charles Davis Feb 8, 2019:
Probably no help, but... The host of 2015 Tonys awards began by welcoming the audience: "Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and those of you who don’t identify as either".
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2015/jun/08/tonys-2015-a-g...

Other attested variants:
"Ladies and gentlemen — and those of you who aren't quite sure" (I've seen this one before).
"Ladies and gentlemen and those of you who are neither"
"Ladies and gentlemen, and those of you who can't make up their minds"
"Ladies and Gentlemen, and those of you who struggle to perceive yourself as inhabitants of either of these categories"

This seems to be making fun of the PC "desdoblamiento" which is rife in certain circles and irritates the hell out of some people: "amigos y amigos", "compañeros y compañeras", "portavoces y portavozas" (© Irene Montero), etc.
Noni Gilbert Riley (asker) Feb 8, 2019:
Apologies Robert ....for not making that clear at the beginning. The problem is that these are surtitres, and you want the English speaking audience to be reacting at the same time as the Spanish audience.
Robert Carter Feb 8, 2019:
Ah, well that certainly puts a different spin on the question. There may not even be a way of addressing this idea in English without coming off terribly ham-fisted, and perhaps even undermining the point trying to be made. Couldn't you perhaps work it in at another point in the dialogue?
Noni Gilbert Riley (asker) Feb 8, 2019:
"Se dice 'todes'" "Para incluir a quienes no se reconocen en uno u otro género". This is what the second speaker goes on to say.
Noni Gilbert Riley (asker) Feb 8, 2019:
I copied it incorrectly. This is a dialogue. The person who says "todes" is correcting the one who said "todos y todas".

Proposed translations

+5
6 mins
Selected

everybody

Good afternoon/evening, ladies and gentlemen. And everybody.

Good afternoon/evening, girls and boys. And all the people in here.

This is my attempt. I will like to know the resolution later because this question is very interesting and useful.

Good luck!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 50 minutos (2019-02-08 23:23:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Good afternoon/evening, ladies and gentlemen. And everyone else (as Robert has proposed).
Peer comment(s):
agree Robert Carter : Yes, no need to reinvent the wheel, at least for this pronoun anyway. I'd definitely steer clear of ladies/gentlemen, boys/girls though.//Scrap what I said; we have more information about the issue now. Perhaps "and everyone else"?
7 mins
Thanks a lot, Robert. I appreciate your comment. I like your option.
agree Yvonne Gallagher : "and everyone else"
4 hrs
agree franglish : Also with Robert, all else sounds overly facetious.
11 hrs
agree Thayenga : "and everyone else". :)
17 hrs
agree MollyRose : Since another person says, "Se dice todes," it makes sense to say, "You mean everybody."
5 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
57 mins

And LGTB(s) / and everybody else besides those categories / and peoples of any genre (sex?)

Not sure how this comes across in English, but per the discussion that is the idea.

Good afternoon/evening, ladies and gentlemen. And everybody else besides those categories.

At any rate, I throw these ideas.

In Spain, nowaday, there is this stupid "politically" correct, "todos y todas" which should be "todas y todos", if one wanted to be fair, as in "colegas y colegos*"!

Artistas y artistos... ciclistas y ciclistos...

El género masmenino y el feculino... ya se sabe.

Saludos cordiales, cordialas y cordialos... (cordialus, sería latín, y "cordialis"... italianini...)
Something went wrong...
11 hrs

and sundry

As in "Good evening everybody, all... and sundry" (slight pause for humorous effect)…

(I'm only half joking by the way).
Reference:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/all-and-sundry

Something went wrong...
+1
2 hrs

and enbies

Kinda cute? Not recognised by many, I guess, but certainly by any English-speaking "todes"

What's an ENBY?
Non-binary: Someone whose gender identity is neither male or female, also referred to as NB or enby.Aug 3, 2018
What Does It Mean to Be Non-Binary or Have Non-Binary Gender?
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-non-bin...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2019-02-09 17:01:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Asker has added that todes refers to those "que no se reconocen en uno u otro género" which to me sounds very much like "Someone whose gender identity is neither male or female"
Peer comment(s):
agree JohnMcDove : Sounds good to me. :-) (Although perhaps I would go with Charles options.)
16 mins
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : not liked by many...https://www.reddit.com/r/NonBinary/comments/8eny2y/anyone_el...
2 hrs
neutral neilmac : Not liked by me. Nay, nay and thrice nay.
9 hrs
Something went wrong...
20 hrs

Y'all

Hi Noni,

If you're looking for an American English slant, maybe this would suit if the context is appropriate, that is, a tongue-in-cheek atttitude is OK.

Something went wrong...
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