Jul 19, 2019 17:09
4 yrs ago
10 viewers *
English term
Germany
Travel & Tourism Translations
Native in: German
Works in: English to German, French to German, Spanish to German
Front and Back Trade Margin
English to German
Bus/Financial
Finance (general)
Leider habe ich keinen direkten Kontext. Es handelt sich um eine Präsentation für eine Schulung für Pharmareferenten, in der die Schulungsteilnehmer die Marge berechnen müssen.
Proposed translations
(German)
| 3 | Bruttohandelsspanne und Prozente |
Barbara Schmidt, M.A. (X)
|
| 3 | Bruttogewinnspanne und Rabattspanne / Bruttogewinnmarge und Rabattmarge |
D. I. Verrelli
|
References
| Skonto ist kein Rabatt |
D. I. Verrelli
|
Proposed translations
1 hr
Bruttohandelsspanne und Prozente
front margin - Bruttogewinnspanne, Bruttomarge, Bruttohandelsspanne
back margin - Rabatt, Prozente
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 Stunde (2019-07-19 18:26:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-front-and-a-back-margin-dif...
Example:
Store X buys dog food from a manufacturer for $20.00.
Store X likes to take a 20% margin on their products from invoice. So $20.00/(1-.20)=$25.00
The Front margin is $5.00, or more generally 20% for their dog food category.
Little do the customers know, there is a “back end promo” in place that for ever bag of dog food Store X sells they get a rebate from the manufacturer for $2.00. The $2.00 (or 10% of invoiced cost) is a “back margin”.
back margin - Rabatt, Prozente
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 Stunde (2019-07-19 18:26:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-front-and-a-back-margin-dif...
Example:
Store X buys dog food from a manufacturer for $20.00.
Store X likes to take a 20% margin on their products from invoice. So $20.00/(1-.20)=$25.00
The Front margin is $5.00, or more generally 20% for their dog food category.
Little do the customers know, there is a “back end promo” in place that for ever bag of dog food Store X sells they get a rebate from the manufacturer for $2.00. The $2.00 (or 10% of invoiced cost) is a “back margin”.
Note from asker:
| Danke für deinen Link Barbara, den hatte ich auch gefunden und es ist mir auch klar, was die beiden Begriffe bedeuten, aber ich finde keinen deutschen Begriff für "Back Margin". Front Margin scheint wirklich die Bruttomarge zu sein. |
| Ich glaube man nennt es Skontomarge |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
D. I. Verrelli
: Did you mean "Rabattprozent(e)"? "Prozente" alone doesn't communicate "Back Margin" to me.
4 days
|
|
Ja, Rabattprozente oder Preisnachlass. Danke für den Hinweis!
|
4 days
D. I. Verrelli
Australia
Australia
Native in English
Australia
Translator with Ph.D. in engineering.
Native in: English (Variants: New Zealand, Australian, UK, British, US, Canadian, Singaporean) 
Works in: German to English, Indonesian to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Bruttogewinnspanne und Rabattspanne / Bruttogewinnmarge und Rabattmarge
FRONT MARGIN:
"Bruttogewinnmarge" and "bruttogewinnspanne" both seem OK.
Although "bruttogewinnspanne" had somewhat fewer 'hits', I'd prefer to consistently use either "-marge" or "-spanne" for both, and "Rabattspanne" had many more hits than "Rabattmarge" (vide infra).
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Bruttogewinnmarge" (22500)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Bruttogewinnspanne" (8010)
"Front margin" does appear to tend to connote the gross difference between selling price (actually paid by the customer) and the (gross) purchase cost of those same goods that were sold.
https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-front-and-a-back-margin-dif...
https://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_a_f...
https://www.kamcity.com/kamwords/front-margin/
See also
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/definition-retail-margin-237...
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/101314/what-are-mai...
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cogs.asp
If the definitions at the above sites are to be read literally, then it seems to me that this "front margin" would not be 'adjusted' for any sales tax (VAT, GST, etc.); that is, the prices and costs would include taxes that were paid. Furthermore there would be no inclusion of purchase costs of goods that spoiled or were stolen and hence were never sold — although such expenses should be included in overall measures of profitability.
With that in mind, "Bruttohandelsspanne" appears not to deal with tax in the desired way, according to the Wikipedia article.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handelsspanne#Berechnung
But see also
https://www.blitzrechner.de/marge-berechnen/
https://www.unternehmerlexikon.de/marge/
And "Bruttomarge" appears to be less specific, so the ambiguity may lead to interpretations different to the intended one.
Perhaps "(brutto)gewinnmarge" is OK.
https://debitoor.de/gruenderlounge/unternehmensgruendung/pre...
One can also say "Aufschlagsspanne" or "Aufschlagsmarge", or else "Abchlagsspanne" or "Abschlagsmarge"
https://www.blitzrechner.de/marge-berechnen/
of which "Aufschlagsspanne" and "Abschlagsspanne" appear to be the more common.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Aufschlagsspanne" (959)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Aufschlagsmarge" (95)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+Abschlagsspanne (1920)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+Abschlagsmarge (1110)
Based on the answer quoted from Quora by Barbara Schmidt, and by analogy to the information on "direct cost margin" at Investopedia (vide infra), it seems to be common practice to compute the margin relative to the selling price (or revenue), rather than relative to the purchase cost. Therefore the more relevant is "Abschlagsspanne".
These apparently are also excluding sales tax (MwSt.), and so they may not be suitable.
https://www.blitzrechner.de/marge-berechnen/
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handelsspanne#Arten
If you really get into the details, there are also all sorts of other questions, such as whether the purchase costs should be the actual purchase costs of the goods that were physically sold (as implied in the definitions above for Front Margin), or whether they should be the hypothetical purchase costs if the goods that were sold had been purchased from the supplier on the same day that they were sold to the customer (which may be called the "trade margin").
https://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=2743
Per the post in the Discussion above, translation into some other languages suggested that "Direktmarge" or "Direktspanne" could have been options, but there is very little support for those terms from online searching.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+Direktmarge (13)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+Direktspanne (0)
It is of note that the "front margin" seems to be similar to the "direct cost margin", with the "direct cost margin" (= "gross margin") expressed relative to the selling price (or the revenue).
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/062215/how-direct-c...
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/grossmargin.asp
BACK MARGIN:
Following Barbara Schmidt's input, "Rabattprozent" could be an option.
In the same vein, one can also find "Rabattspanne" and "Rabattmarge"
https://browse.dict.cc/deutsch-englisch/Rabattspanne.html
https://browse.dict.cc/deutsch-spanisch/Rabattmarge.html
Of these three, "Rabattspanne" appears to be most common.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Rabattprozent" (725)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Rabattspanne" (2770)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Rabattmarge" (43)
Another idea was "Rückvergütungsmarge"
https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/sind-auch-haendler-aus-dem-n...
Although this sounded good to me, it is apparently very uncommon
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Rückvergütungsmarge&quo... (1)
If the "Back Margin" is calculated relative to the purchase cost, then it would be (in a sense) incompatible with a "Front Margin" calculated relative to the selling price.
Conversely, if the "Back Margin" is calculated relative to the selling price, then it would be totally different to the offer quoted by the supplier!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2019-07-24 13:38:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
BACK MARGIN
Two more options for "Back Margin" are "Rückzahlungsspanne" and "Rückzahlungsmarge", to emphasise that the rebates/refunds are received subsequent to the purchase from the supplier.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+Rückzahlungsspanne (12)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+Rückzahlungsmarge (4)
"Bruttogewinnmarge" and "bruttogewinnspanne" both seem OK.
Although "bruttogewinnspanne" had somewhat fewer 'hits', I'd prefer to consistently use either "-marge" or "-spanne" for both, and "Rabattspanne" had many more hits than "Rabattmarge" (vide infra).
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Bruttogewinnmarge" (22500)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Bruttogewinnspanne" (8010)
"Front margin" does appear to tend to connote the gross difference between selling price (actually paid by the customer) and the (gross) purchase cost of those same goods that were sold.
https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-front-and-a-back-margin-dif...
https://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_a_f...
https://www.kamcity.com/kamwords/front-margin/
See also
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/definition-retail-margin-237...
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/101314/what-are-mai...
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cogs.asp
If the definitions at the above sites are to be read literally, then it seems to me that this "front margin" would not be 'adjusted' for any sales tax (VAT, GST, etc.); that is, the prices and costs would include taxes that were paid. Furthermore there would be no inclusion of purchase costs of goods that spoiled or were stolen and hence were never sold — although such expenses should be included in overall measures of profitability.
With that in mind, "Bruttohandelsspanne" appears not to deal with tax in the desired way, according to the Wikipedia article.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handelsspanne#Berechnung
But see also
https://www.blitzrechner.de/marge-berechnen/
https://www.unternehmerlexikon.de/marge/
And "Bruttomarge" appears to be less specific, so the ambiguity may lead to interpretations different to the intended one.
Perhaps "(brutto)gewinnmarge" is OK.
https://debitoor.de/gruenderlounge/unternehmensgruendung/pre...
One can also say "Aufschlagsspanne" or "Aufschlagsmarge", or else "Abchlagsspanne" or "Abschlagsmarge"
https://www.blitzrechner.de/marge-berechnen/
of which "Aufschlagsspanne" and "Abschlagsspanne" appear to be the more common.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Aufschlagsspanne" (959)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Aufschlagsmarge" (95)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+Abschlagsspanne (1920)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+Abschlagsmarge (1110)
Based on the answer quoted from Quora by Barbara Schmidt, and by analogy to the information on "direct cost margin" at Investopedia (vide infra), it seems to be common practice to compute the margin relative to the selling price (or revenue), rather than relative to the purchase cost. Therefore the more relevant is "Abschlagsspanne".
These apparently are also excluding sales tax (MwSt.), and so they may not be suitable.
https://www.blitzrechner.de/marge-berechnen/
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handelsspanne#Arten
If you really get into the details, there are also all sorts of other questions, such as whether the purchase costs should be the actual purchase costs of the goods that were physically sold (as implied in the definitions above for Front Margin), or whether they should be the hypothetical purchase costs if the goods that were sold had been purchased from the supplier on the same day that they were sold to the customer (which may be called the "trade margin").
https://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=2743
Per the post in the Discussion above, translation into some other languages suggested that "Direktmarge" or "Direktspanne" could have been options, but there is very little support for those terms from online searching.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+Direktmarge (13)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+Direktspanne (0)
It is of note that the "front margin" seems to be similar to the "direct cost margin", with the "direct cost margin" (= "gross margin") expressed relative to the selling price (or the revenue).
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/062215/how-direct-c...
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/grossmargin.asp
BACK MARGIN:
Following Barbara Schmidt's input, "Rabattprozent" could be an option.
In the same vein, one can also find "Rabattspanne" and "Rabattmarge"
https://browse.dict.cc/deutsch-englisch/Rabattspanne.html
https://browse.dict.cc/deutsch-spanisch/Rabattmarge.html
Of these three, "Rabattspanne" appears to be most common.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Rabattprozent" (725)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Rabattspanne" (2770)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Rabattmarge" (43)
Another idea was "Rückvergütungsmarge"
https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/sind-auch-haendler-aus-dem-n...
Although this sounded good to me, it is apparently very uncommon
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Rückvergütungsmarge&quo... (1)
If the "Back Margin" is calculated relative to the purchase cost, then it would be (in a sense) incompatible with a "Front Margin" calculated relative to the selling price.
Conversely, if the "Back Margin" is calculated relative to the selling price, then it would be totally different to the offer quoted by the supplier!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2019-07-24 13:38:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
BACK MARGIN
Two more options for "Back Margin" are "Rückzahlungsspanne" and "Rückzahlungsmarge", to emphasise that the rebates/refunds are received subsequent to the purchase from the supplier.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+Rückzahlungsspanne (12)
https://www.bing.com/search?q=+Rückzahlungsmarge (4)
Reference comments
4 days
D. I. Verrelli
Australia
Australia
Native in English
Australia
Translator with Ph.D. in engineering.
Native in: English (Variants: New Zealand, Australian, UK, British, US, Canadian, Singaporean)
Works in: German to English, Indonesian to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Reference:
Skonto ist kein Rabatt
~~~~
Ein Skonto, der für eine vorfristige Zahlung eingeräumt wird, ist etwas anderes als ein Rabatt, sagt das Landgericht Aschaffenburg [...]. [...].
[...]. Diese hatte dagegen geklagt, dass AEP zusätzlich zum Rabatt von 3 Prozent noch 2,5 Prozent Skonto gibt. Das sei mehr als der nach Arzneimittelpreisverordnung (AMPreisV) zulässige Höchstrabatt, der auf die Höhe der prozentualen Großhandelsmarge von 3,15 Prozent beschränkt sei. Doch Skonti und Rabatte sind für Richterin Ursula Schäfer zweifelsfrei unterschiedliche Sachverhalte: „Diese Begriffe mögen sprachlich synonym sein, jedoch kaufmännisch und buchhalterisch gesehen, sind sie es nicht“.
~~~~~
https://www.deutsche-apotheker-zeitung.de/daz-az/2015/az-45-...
See the link for more details.
One important point is that even though the terms might seem like synonyms to the lay person, in specialised contexts — such as pharmaceutical commerce (which is apparently the Asker's context) — the terms may describe totally separate features.
A minor point is to take note of the 'irregular' plural form used.
Ein Skonto, der für eine vorfristige Zahlung eingeräumt wird, ist etwas anderes als ein Rabatt, sagt das Landgericht Aschaffenburg [...]. [...].
[...]. Diese hatte dagegen geklagt, dass AEP zusätzlich zum Rabatt von 3 Prozent noch 2,5 Prozent Skonto gibt. Das sei mehr als der nach Arzneimittelpreisverordnung (AMPreisV) zulässige Höchstrabatt, der auf die Höhe der prozentualen Großhandelsmarge von 3,15 Prozent beschränkt sei. Doch Skonti und Rabatte sind für Richterin Ursula Schäfer zweifelsfrei unterschiedliche Sachverhalte: „Diese Begriffe mögen sprachlich synonym sein, jedoch kaufmännisch und buchhalterisch gesehen, sind sie es nicht“.
~~~~~
https://www.deutsche-apotheker-zeitung.de/daz-az/2015/az-45-...
See the link for more details.
One important point is that even though the terms might seem like synonyms to the lay person, in specialised contexts — such as pharmaceutical commerce (which is apparently the Asker's context) — the terms may describe totally separate features.
A minor point is to take note of the 'irregular' plural form used.
Discussion
https://dict.leo.org/german-english/Preisnachlass
https://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/Preisnachlass
https://en.pons.com/translate?q=Preisnachlass&l=deen&in=&lf=...
The Duden unfortunately sends one in a circle:
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Preisnachlass
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Nachlass
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Rabatt
"Rabatt" also often seems to be used to refer to an upfront discount, rather than a subsequent rebate/refund.
https://dict.leo.org/german-english/rabatt
https://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/Rabatt
https://en.pons.com/translate?q=Rabatt&l=deen&in=&lf=de&qnac...
So maybe I should have stuck with "Rückvergütungsmarge"?
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rebate#Translations
"Nettomarge" (nett margin) would be the same as the "Bruttomarge" (gross margin) if one didn't have to pay any taxes.
On the other hand, the "back margin" apparently has nothing (much) to do with tax, but is primarily focussed on refunds/rebates (kind of post hoc discounts). The only way I can see tax entering there would be tacitly in the details.
Purchase cost: 100 (of which some may go towards tax)
Selling price: 160 (of which 20 is sales tax)
Subsequent rebate: 10 (of which some may be taxed)
"Bruttomarge" ≈ Gross (front) margin = 160 − 100 = 60.
If a percentage relative to (gross) sales revenue: 37.5%
"Nettomarge" ≈ Nett (front) margin = 140 − 100 = 40.
If a percentage relative to (nett) sales revenue: 28.5%
Back margin = 10
If a percentage relative to (gross) purchase cost: 10.0%
If a percentage relative to (gross) sales revenue: 6.25%
If a percentage relative to (nett) sales revenue: 7.1%
That is just based on my interpretation.
By the way, we've been ignoring the word "trade" in the question. I hope & trust that doesn't make a difference. (But see my link to the OECD glossary.)
Hier mal:
Im Gegensatz zur Bruttomarge werden bei der Nettomarge nicht nur die Herstellkosten, sondern auch alle übrigen Aufwendungen (zum Beispiel Zinskosten, Verwaltungskosten) vom Umsatz abgezogen. Damit beziffert die Nettomarge letztendlich den prozentualen Anteil des Unternehmensgewinns am Umsatz und wird deshalb auch häufig als Umsatzrendite bezeichnet. Eine Nettomarge von zehn Prozent bedeutet, dass dem Unternehmen von je 100 Euro Umsatz nach Abzug aller Kosten zehn Euro übrig bleiben.
aus
http://www.fonds-rating.com/index.php/de/boersenlexikon/504-...
oder
Im Gegensatz zur Bruttomarge werden bei der Nettomarge nicht nur die Herstellkosten, sondern auch alle übrigen Aufwendungen (zum Beispiel Zinskosten, Verwaltungskosten) vom Umsatz abgezogen. Damit beziffert die Nettomarge letztendlich den prozentualen Anteil des Unternehmensgewinns am Umsatz
https://www.proz.com/search/?term=\"marge avant\" \"marge ar...
of which I like "Rückvergütung".
"Nachmarge" looked promising, but I cannot find any examples of its use in practice (nor "Nachspanne").
Spanish: "margen directo" / "margen de acción" for Front Margin.
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-spanish/business-comme...
Italian: "margine lordo" / "margine fatturato" / "margine (diretto) sulla vendita" / "margine merci" / "margine alle casse" / "margine diretto" for Front Margin.
"margine di cooperazione commerciale" for Back Margin.
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-italian/finance-genera...
Portuguese: "margem bruta (do varejista)" / "margem de contribuição" / "margem de contribuição" / "margem de retorno" / "margem do varejista" for Front Margin.
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-portuguese/business-co...
The above post also includes the French term:
"marge avant" for Front Margin.
Cf. "marge arrière" for Back Margin.
from
https://www.definitions-marketing.com/definition/marge-avant...
Russian
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-russian/retail/5123722...