English term
Veni Vidi Vici
Native in: Russian 
, Ukrainian
Works in: Russian to English, English to Russian, Ukrainian to English, and 5 more.
— at the Buyer’s choice —
please advise about the following:
1) if the subject phrase — at the Buyer’s choice — placed and punctuated correctly in the sentence below? Or there is a better place for this phrase in the sentence?
2) Is the sentence below understandable?
3) Does the sentence below sound more or less natural in English?
Thank you very much in adbvace!
===
5.4. At their own expense and within 14 (fourteen) calendar days from the date of signing the Protocol or from the date of receipt of the Protocol from the Buyer (if a Supplier’s representative did not arrive), the Supplier shall — at the Buyer’s choice — either correct the defects or replace the defective products at the Buyer’s location: DAP Poltava, Ukraine. Repair or replacement of the Goods during the warranty period shall be confirmed by the relevant Protocol.
| 4 +7 | at the Buyer’s choice |
Jennifer Levey
|
Non-PRO (2): Tony M, Edith Kelly
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Responses
Chile
Human-scale Globalization
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, English to Spanish, and 2 more.
at the Buyer’s choice
1 - yes (and no, the phrase does not need to be moved)
2 - yes
3 - yes
That said, a few additional commas would make it easier for a non-native user of English to understand it.
| agree |
AllegroTrans
27 mins
|
| agree |
Tony M
: And as Phil points out, dashes are inappropriate in the context and register here: just commas are what is needed.
1 hr
|
| agree |
BdiL
: Yes, and definitely with Tony about commas. MAu
6 hrs
|
| agree |
Edith Kelly
17 hrs
|
| agree |
danya
: w/the pro-commas bunch :)
23 hrs
|
| agree |
Brayan duartt
1 day 6 hrs
|
| agree |
Daryo
3 days 7 hrs
|
Discussion
Likewise a 'care protocol' in healthcare.
This word has "moved with the times" and come a very long way from its formal origins!
Like imagining that you could just get rid of some silly little acronym in a contract "for better style" - some silly little acronym that happens to directly connect to a very detailed definition and tons of jurisprudence? Really, why would anyone need that level of unambiguity in a contract?
BTW, whatever "Google dictionary" has to say, I could off my head add two more definitions for documents called "protocol" of a completely different kind. Accepting as gospel whatever some search engine will throw at you as answer to a simplistically asked question is maybe also "moving with times"? More like walking in a dead end ...
Are you seriously telling us that the standard Incoterm acronym should be abonded and replaced by (in this text) "...deliver them to the buyer’s location in Poltava, Ukraine"?
Protocol
A brief summary; the minutes of a meeting; the etiquette of diplomacy.
Protocol refers to a summarized document or the minutes of a meeting that are initialed by the parties present to indicate the accuracy of the document or minutes.
WHAT DOES LEGAL PROTOCOL MEAN? - Restthecase
There are just the three 'D' Incoterms mentioned previously.
'Traditional legal in -> traditional legal out
Plain legal in -> plain legal out'
Absolutely - and there's no sign here that Asker's text is biased towards 'plain'. On the contrary, it has many of the traits of traditional, such as the upper-case 'Protocol' that Phil objects to.
@Phil
'I'm sorry you're one of those who object to plain English'.
I don't object to plain English, provided it is used appropriately. I have already commented on the folly of rewriting a single clause from a contract we haven't even had sight of.
Daryo has given an excellent example of how things can go wrong when rendering legal texts in 'plain' English. DPA is standard lingo in supply contracts and needs no 'plainer' rendering. Worse still, your suggestion to replace 'DPA' with 'delivery' loses not only the 'hint' that the text is using standard Incoterm-ese to indicate a very specific place of delivery, but it also fails to identify which of the three (perhaps more...) 'delivery' descriptions included in the Incoterm repertoire (DAP, DAT, DDP, ...) is intended. As so often happens, your attempt to render in plain English causes loss of essential legally binding information.
Traditional legal in -> traditional legal out
Plain legal in -> plain legal out
And, taking just one example - French - the trend toward plain language has indeed started but it is much more advanced in Canada than in France, Belgium, Luxembourg or Switzerland.
Conversely, there is at least one contributor to this forum (he knows who he is) who, even when confronted with plain language, insists on translating into convoluted, long-winded and often outdated usage, seemingly out of some pathological phobia about modern English.
(registro ufficiale) register, record, log
(accordo ufficiale tra stati, parti sociali) (political) protocol
Il Protocollo delle Nazioni Unite è stato firmato.
The United Nations protocol has been signed.
http://www.wordreference.com/iten/protocollo
Can you really imagine someone saying sorry your goods are defective, I'll replace them and send you a protocol?
Twenty-first-century English doesn't spell common nouns with initial capitals.
And the Google dictionary defines protocol as "the original draft of a diplomatic document, especially of the terms of a treaty agreed to in conference and signed by the parties."
In case of litigation, that would surely be highly appreciated by the client and the judge/arbiter that would have to deal with the resulting confusion would be surely deeply impressed ...
Really the brightest idea when translating a contract!
The quoted clause is number 5.4 in the contract, and in the first line it refers to 'the Protocol' (note the upper-case 'P'). That implies that the Protocol has previously been identified (and perhaps incorporated by reference, so it becomes an integral part of the contract). The clause ends with reference to what appears to be a different 'Protocol' - indeed, there may be a dozen relevant 'Protocols' listed in a Schedule, either in the contract itself, or in some over-arching Framework Agreement.
If you now refer to them - in just one clause - as mere 'reports' (lower-case 'r', to boot...), you inevitably break the formal link to those Protocols, and that clause of contract (if not the entire contract) will be unenforceable.
A couple of points:
DAP is an Incoterm meaning "delivered at place". I've just said "delivered".
I don't think we'd say "protocol" - it's too grand for a piece of paper or a note on a computer system.
'if no Supplier’s representative was present' would be more normal EN, assuming of course that this is indeed what it's supposed to mean!
https://eng.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_general/1.4#1.4