Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
Voir dire et juger que...
English translation:
Requests that the Court adjudge and rule that...
Added to glossary by
Maggie JONES (X)
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Answer found elsewhere
Jun 21, 2012 06:22
11 yrs ago
39 viewers *
French term
Voir dire et juger que...
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
inheritance law, summons
This appears in a summons for one of five heirs to an estate, regarding the porperty held in indivisum.
"PAR CES MOTIFS
Au visa des dispositions de l'article 815 du Code Civil...
Voir dire et juger que par le ministère de Maître XXX, Notaire à XXX, il sera procédé aux opérations de compte liquidation et partage de la succession de Monsieur XXX....
Voir dire et juger qu'il sera prélalablement procédé à la licitation des biens ci-après désignés..."
Is this where the author of the document (the lawyer) states what will be asked of the Court?
My attempted translation is as follows, but is awkward, and most of all I am unsure as to the exact meaning of "Voir dire et juger...". In this context, it does not seem related to "voir dire" the noun, in the sense of a preliminary hearing to determine the admissibility of evidence.
"ON THESE GROUNDS
To ask that the Court adjudge and rule that Maître XXX, Notary in XXX, proceed with the settlement and subsequent severance and partition of the estate of Mr XXX...
To ask that the Court adjudge and rule that the properties designated hereafter, held in indivisum, first be sold at auction"
Can anybody out there shed some light here? Thanks!!!!
"PAR CES MOTIFS
Au visa des dispositions de l'article 815 du Code Civil...
Voir dire et juger que par le ministère de Maître XXX, Notaire à XXX, il sera procédé aux opérations de compte liquidation et partage de la succession de Monsieur XXX....
Voir dire et juger qu'il sera prélalablement procédé à la licitation des biens ci-après désignés..."
Is this where the author of the document (the lawyer) states what will be asked of the Court?
My attempted translation is as follows, but is awkward, and most of all I am unsure as to the exact meaning of "Voir dire et juger...". In this context, it does not seem related to "voir dire" the noun, in the sense of a preliminary hearing to determine the admissibility of evidence.
"ON THESE GROUNDS
To ask that the Court adjudge and rule that Maître XXX, Notary in XXX, proceed with the settlement and subsequent severance and partition of the estate of Mr XXX...
To ask that the Court adjudge and rule that the properties designated hereafter, held in indivisum, first be sold at auction"
Can anybody out there shed some light here? Thanks!!!!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | See the rule... |
Salih YILDIRIM
|
| 3 | Voir dire and rule on whether |
pooja_chic
|
| 4 -1 | judicial review of |
Johannes Gleim
|
| 3 | hear, to be heard |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
|
Change log
Jun 21, 2012 10:24: Maggie JONES (X) Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
35 mins
pooja_chic
Native in English
Works in field
Translation is depth of the passion
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, English to French, Portuguese to English
Related KudoZ points
:
42
Voir dire and rule on whether
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law_general/2437...
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/voir dire
Voir dire consists of oral questions asked of prospective jurors by the judge, the parties, or the attorneys, or some combination thereof. This oral questioning, often supplemented by a prior written questionnaire, is used to determine whether a potential juror is biased, knows any of the parties, counsel, or witnesses, or should otherwise be excluded from jury duty. Voir dire is a tool used to achieve the constitutional right to an impartial jury, but it is not a constitutional right in itself.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/voir dire
Voir dire consists of oral questions asked of prospective jurors by the judge, the parties, or the attorneys, or some combination thereof. This oral questioning, often supplemented by a prior written questionnaire, is used to determine whether a potential juror is biased, knows any of the parties, counsel, or witnesses, or should otherwise be excluded from jury duty. Voir dire is a tool used to achieve the constitutional right to an impartial jury, but it is not a constitutional right in itself.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: This is one correct meaning of this but it cannot apply strictly speaking in this case : there are no jurors to be heard. It describes a situation where individuals are to be heard, interviewed in order for information to be obtained : hear?
4 hrs
|
-1
2 hrs
Johannes Gleim
40 years Engineer, 20 years translations
Native in: German
Works in: English to German, German to English, French to German, and 6 more.
judicial review of
Dans la seconde affaire (ci-après l'«affaire Imperial Tobacco»), un certain nombre de fabricants de produits du tabac ont introduit une action au Royaume-Uni devant la High Court of Justice, Queen's Bench Division (Crown Office) (ci-après la «juridiction nationale ou le juge a quo»), visant notamment à voir dire et juger que l'intention ou l'obligation pour le Royaume-Uni de satisfaire aux exigences de la directive seraient illicites.
In the second (hereinafter Case C-74/99 or Imperial Tobacco), a number of companies which manufacture tobacco products initiated proceedings in the United Kingdom, before the High Court of Justice, Queen's Bench Division (Crown Office) (hereinafter the national court). They apply for judicial review of, inter alia, the intention and/or obligation of the United Kingdom Government to give effect to the requirements of the Directive.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?mode=dbl&lng1=en,fr&lang=...
In the second (hereinafter Case C-74/99 or Imperial Tobacco), a number of companies which manufacture tobacco products initiated proceedings in the United Kingdom, before the High Court of Justice, Queen's Bench Division (Crown Office) (hereinafter the national court). They apply for judicial review of, inter alia, the intention and/or obligation of the United Kingdom Government to give effect to the requirements of the Directive.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?mode=dbl&lng1=en,fr&lang=...
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: Judicial review (in UK contexts) describes a specific process in administrative law whereby an application is made requesting judges to review of an allegedly erroneous administrative procedure or action.//Looks like an error in translation from EN>FR?
2 hrs
|
|
Exactly! This is what the European Commission said (see above) and what conformed to the original wording (before modifying). I know also "dire et juger", what has exactly the meaning the asker added later on.
|
3 hrs
Salih YILDIRIM
United States
United States
Works in field
United States
Meticulous, scrupulous, curious work!
Native in: Turkish (Variant: Standard-İstanbul )
Works in: Turkish to English, English to Turkish, French to Turkish, and 1 more.
See the rule...
Imho
5 hrs
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native in English
Works in field
Psychologist, Court-certified legal
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
451
French term (edited):
Voir dire
hear, to be heard
See discussion post.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2012-06-21 12:26:09 GMT)
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Discussion post copied here and removed from discussion section.
Voir dire et juger que par X... il sera procédé à13:32
The origin of the term "voir dire" is quite ancient. The original meaning is generally specifically as put by Pooja_CHic. However, the akser's context has nothing to do with jurors. It has everything to do with interviewing, meeting and having people explain situations and provide information. In other words, the function performed by "voir" in "voir dire" can be considered akin to that of the verb "faire" in "faire faire" (have something done). Here, "voir dire" means seeing someone saying something. The verb "hear" is perfectly adequate in this context.
"Adjudge" is an error here. It means
http://dictionnaire.reverso.net/anglais-cobuild/adjudge
adjudicate, allot, apportion, assign, award, decide, declare, decree, determine, distribute, judge, order, pronounce
Yes, "adjuge" is in there, but not in a legal sense.
Your context relates to the distribution of assets in a succession. In order for assets to be determined and their distribution decided upon, sometimes a lengthy process indeed, it is necessary to meet with a number of people, including potential beneficiaires.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2012-06-21 12:27:53 GMT)
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Here, the court has heard and ruled that... etc.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2012-06-21 12:26:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Discussion post copied here and removed from discussion section.
Voir dire et juger que par X... il sera procédé à13:32
The origin of the term "voir dire" is quite ancient. The original meaning is generally specifically as put by Pooja_CHic. However, the akser's context has nothing to do with jurors. It has everything to do with interviewing, meeting and having people explain situations and provide information. In other words, the function performed by "voir" in "voir dire" can be considered akin to that of the verb "faire" in "faire faire" (have something done). Here, "voir dire" means seeing someone saying something. The verb "hear" is perfectly adequate in this context.
"Adjudge" is an error here. It means
http://dictionnaire.reverso.net/anglais-cobuild/adjudge
adjudicate, allot, apportion, assign, award, decide, declare, decree, determine, distribute, judge, order, pronounce
Yes, "adjuge" is in there, but not in a legal sense.
Your context relates to the distribution of assets in a succession. In order for assets to be determined and their distribution decided upon, sometimes a lengthy process indeed, it is necessary to meet with a number of people, including potential beneficiaires.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2012-06-21 12:27:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here, the court has heard and ruled that... etc.
Discussion
"Par ces motifs:
Dire et juger commune et opposable à la Société XXXXX opérations d’expertise confiées par Ordonnance de référé du xx.yy.zzz du Président du TGI YYYYY à M ZZZZZ."
:
Dire en consequence que ... "
I translated "dire et juger" by the German equivalent of "has to be determined". This is similar to the new interpretation "constater et juger".
I remembered well this part, but did not take into consideration as the question started with "Voir ...", what led to a different interpretation.
"Voir dire et juger que..." = "Requiert que le Tribunal constate et juge (OU atteste et décide) que..."
So I changed my phrasing to: "Requests that the Court adjudge and rule that...". Hope this helps somebody in the future.
I'm afraid the answers I received were not quite on target, so closing the question without points, but thank you all for trying!!
OR