Péter Jutai Jul 5, 2011:

abl. abs. mancus Me duce: cum ego dux eram, parentibus invitis: cum parentes inviti essent. Will you, Ms. Kraus, rewrite the expression "totissimis viribus" in the same manner? Would you please also explain what Nebenbedeutung (I don't know this word in English) your translation has out of those five Nebenbedeutungen, that an ablativus absolutus can have?

Péter Jutai Jul 5, 2011:

It is not an ablativus absolutus. I was shocked to see that someone said totissimis viribus was an ablativus absolutus. An ablativus absolutus or participium absolutum needs a verb, this is beyond doubts or questions. That is why it is called PARTICIPIUM absolutum. If there is no verb in the sentence, there cannot by a participium, so it cannot be a participium absolutum.
Ms. Kraus' examples show ablativos absolutos mancos. In these cases the abl. abs consists only of two nouns or a noun and an adjective, BUT it does not mean there is no verb in the expression! The verb is only missing, because sum, esse, fui has no participium. So me duce "should be" me duce *essente, while parentibus invitis "should be" parentibus invitis *essentibus. While there is no such thing as essente or essentibus, these verbs are missing from the sentence.
If Ms. Kraus does not agree with me, please take one more thing into consideration: all ablativi absoluti can be rewritten as simple sentences (e.g.: Cicerone necato: cum Cicero necatus esset; Pyrrho regnante: cum Pyrrhus rex erat). All abl. abs. man. can be also rewritten as simple sentences, but in these cases the simple sentence always has to contain a conjugated form of 'esse'.

Stephen C. Farrand Jul 4, 2011:

The point of absolutus The semantic content of abl abs is no different than the other possible meanings of substantives in the ablative case. What is different is that they are "set free" from being bound to one particular word in the sentence (in other words, they modify nothing or can be seen as modifying the whole sentence). I still maintain that totissimis viribus would modify the verb (if one were to recast the sentence in Latin!) and therefore is not absolutum.

@Eleonore: It is impossible to discuss this distinction with citations that do not include the whole Latin sentence; individual phrases in ablative case do not really pertain.

Ellen Kraus Jul 4, 2011:

@Louis Antonio. sorry to contradict. the following examples demonstrate the specific form of an abl.abs. WITHOUT a verb (participle I said in my previous response to Stephen): "Abl.abs.
home.eduhi.at/member/gru/AblAbs.htm - me duce : unter meiner Führung. parentibus invitis: gegen den Willen der Eltern. Ulixe auctore : auf Anstiften des Odysseus. Startseite · Grammatikübersicht "

Luis Antonio de Larrauri Jul 4, 2011:

Stephen is right. An ablative absolute requires a verb, wheter explicit (Romulo regnante) or implicit (Romulo rege), but in this last case surmising the verb "to be", and only "to be". In "totissimis viribus" there is no verb whatsoever, it is a plain adverbial clause (of manner).

Ellen Kraus Jul 2, 2011:

Stephen, to my thinking the term in question represents a special form of an abl.abs. inasmuch as it has not participle. Other examples are e.g. Ulixe auctore, parentibus invitis, viribus unitis; as opposed to a participle construction, such as "rebus sic stantibus" or "hostibus appropinquantibus".

Stephen C. Farrand Jul 2, 2011:

Ellen, perhaps we are really talking about the differences between our native languages' terminology in describing use of the ablative in Latin. In the English-speaking world, we distinguish between ablatives of manner, which are strictly adverbial (e.g. magna (cum) celeritate iter fecerunt); and true ablativi absoluti, which modify no one word in the main clause (e.g. Caesare proconsule facto, Helvetii trans Alpes etiam habitabant). In Mr. Kohen's citation, totissimis viribus modifies "prosecute" and thus is not an abl. abs.

Ellen Kraus Jul 2, 2011:

Sorry, Stephen; whether of time or of mode, it´s an ablativus absolutus, allthesame.

Stephen C. Farrand Jul 2, 2011:

Sorry, Ellen, I don't agree with your parsing. Ablative of manner (ablativus modi).

Ellen Kraus Jul 2, 2011:

with Stephen; it´s the ablativus absolutus

Stephen C. Farrand Jul 2, 2011:

Correct Spelling The Latin should be totissimis viribus for this adj/noun pair to be in agreement.

Gad Kohenov (asker) Jul 2, 2011:

Typo To manage it With all available forces