May 28, 2005 00:15
19 yrs ago
English term
Fast Fluent Faithful
Native in: Turkish 
Works in: English to Turkish, Turkish to English, Turkish
Hurt or Break?
English
Social Sciences
Linguistics
(Please native English speakers only)
A Turkish site dedicated to the protection of children's rights adopted a slogan that reads "Vurursan Kýrýlýr."
http://www.0-18.org/
The page also includes its English version which reads: "If hit breaks"
The website has an "About" page in English at: http://www.0-18.org/koordinator/about_us.htm
We, translators at English-Turkish pair thought that "If hit breaks" is a blooper, or rather a mistranslation and does not convey the original message.
Before asking my question, let me try to explain the original Message in Turkish.
The message says that when you hit [presumably the child] s/he will be damaged (physically and/or mentally).
"Kýrýlmak" in Turkish means to be broken, disappointed, disgruntled, displeased, hurt, injured, offended, etc.
"Kýrmak" in Turkish means to break, disappoint, hurt, injure, cause resentment, etc.
Now, how should we express this slogan in English?
We are in search of a slogan in English that would emphasise the negative, long lasting psychological effects of violence on children.
And we have certain alternatives already:
1. If hit breaks
2. Will break if hit
3. Fragile: Do Not Hit
4. Don't hit it, it will break
4. broken if hit
5. Hitting hurts
Which one do you think is better? Or, would you suggest a more expressive alternative?
Thank you in advance
A Turkish site dedicated to the protection of children's rights adopted a slogan that reads "Vurursan Kýrýlýr."
http://www.0-18.org/
The page also includes its English version which reads: "If hit breaks"
The website has an "About" page in English at: http://www.0-18.org/koordinator/about_us.htm
We, translators at English-Turkish pair thought that "If hit breaks" is a blooper, or rather a mistranslation and does not convey the original message.
Before asking my question, let me try to explain the original Message in Turkish.
The message says that when you hit [presumably the child] s/he will be damaged (physically and/or mentally).
"Kýrýlmak" in Turkish means to be broken, disappointed, disgruntled, displeased, hurt, injured, offended, etc.
"Kýrmak" in Turkish means to break, disappoint, hurt, injure, cause resentment, etc.
Now, how should we express this slogan in English?
We are in search of a slogan in English that would emphasise the negative, long lasting psychological effects of violence on children.
And we have certain alternatives already:
1. If hit breaks
2. Will break if hit
3. Fragile: Do Not Hit
4. Don't hit it, it will break
4. broken if hit
5. Hitting hurts
Which one do you think is better? Or, would you suggest a more expressive alternative?
Thank you in advance
Responses
Responses
+10
1 hr
Nick Lingris
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The word is my oyster
Native in: Greek
Works in: English to Greek, Greek to English, Greek
Related KudoZ points
:
52
Selected
Hitting hurts
I’m not a native speaker, so you can disregard this. And my peers are welcome to disagree.
"Hitting hurts"
I like it too. It encapsulates Rita’s “Hitting causes damage, in mind and body”. Plus it has nice alliteration.
“If hit breaks”, the English slogan you’re currently using, is wrong, even as shorthand.
“Fragile: Handle with Care” (the well-known sign; it has often been used in connection with children, including however children with Fragile X syndrome, so you should probably avoid using Fragile)
Perhaps just “Handle with care” (it goes well with the picture on your site too)
“Breaks When Hit”: a possible alternative to “Will break if hit” (but I prefer the latter)
“Sticks and stones Will break my bones” (a variation on a well-known saying; too long)
[Note to native speakers: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words may also hurt me…]
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Note added at 3 days 1 hr 15 mins (2005-05-31 01:31:11 GMT)
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You understand that you do not have to decide on the basis of who’s “winning”.
Your basic options are, it seems, as follows:
1. The Turkish message on the site says, if I’m not mistaken, “Will break if hit”. If you want an exact translation, you may have to go for this one.
2. I chose ‘Hitting hurts’, though Goodwords didn’t think it had enough punch, because it’s as short as your original and because the verb ‘hurt’ combines physical and emotional pain. Plus it sounded good.
3. If you do not mind a longer slogan, and want to stress the long-lasting psychological harm, you should probably go for Ruth’s “Hitting leaves invisible scars” or her longer suggestion “Hitting leaves scars, both visible and invisible”, or Lesley’s “Hitting hurts--in more ways than one”.
I hope I’m not misrepresenting any of my peers here. Give them a chance to post their comments before you make your final decision.
"Hitting hurts"
I like it too. It encapsulates Rita’s “Hitting causes damage, in mind and body”. Plus it has nice alliteration.
“If hit breaks”, the English slogan you’re currently using, is wrong, even as shorthand.
“Fragile: Handle with Care” (the well-known sign; it has often been used in connection with children, including however children with Fragile X syndrome, so you should probably avoid using Fragile)
Perhaps just “Handle with care” (it goes well with the picture on your site too)
“Breaks When Hit”: a possible alternative to “Will break if hit” (but I prefer the latter)
“Sticks and stones Will break my bones” (a variation on a well-known saying; too long)
[Note to native speakers: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words may also hurt me…]
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days 1 hr 15 mins (2005-05-31 01:31:11 GMT)
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You understand that you do not have to decide on the basis of who’s “winning”.
Your basic options are, it seems, as follows:
1. The Turkish message on the site says, if I’m not mistaken, “Will break if hit”. If you want an exact translation, you may have to go for this one.
2. I chose ‘Hitting hurts’, though Goodwords didn’t think it had enough punch, because it’s as short as your original and because the verb ‘hurt’ combines physical and emotional pain. Plus it sounded good.
3. If you do not mind a longer slogan, and want to stress the long-lasting psychological harm, you should probably go for Ruth’s “Hitting leaves invisible scars” or her longer suggestion “Hitting leaves scars, both visible and invisible”, or Lesley’s “Hitting hurts--in more ways than one”.
I hope I’m not misrepresenting any of my peers here. Give them a chance to post their comments before you make your final decision.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Oso (X)
: I'm not an English native speaker either, but I must say your version of the well-known saying is wonderful (including the last note) ¶;^)
1 hr
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Thank you, Oso. Let's now crawl back into the woodwork.
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| disagree |
Refugio
: I believe this only carries part of the idea. The traditional view was that yes, hitting hurts (physically), but it builds character. The goal of this campaign will be to convince those traditional parents that it also causes psychological harm.
1 hr
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I agree with you, but it is my impression they want to keep their slogan short. I hope they won't be trying to convince parents on the basis of a slogan only.
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| agree |
Balasubramaniam L.
: "Hitting hurts" is the best of the lot in my opinion too, which of course doesn't count as I am a non-native user of English.
2 hrs
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Thank you, my friend. I see neither of us will be deterred.
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| agree |
LJC (X)
: How about 'Hitting hurts - in more ways than one'? I think that implies that there's more damage than the damage you can see.
4 hrs
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Thank you. I like your version, but it is my impression they want something very short.
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| agree |
carly kelly
: I like this the most too, and I AM a native English speaker! It's short, to the point and I like the alliteration. I think the body and mind aspect is encapsulated by "hurt" too.
6 hrs
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My point exactly! Thank you.
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| agree |
Nanny Wintjens
6 hrs
|
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Thank you.
|
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| agree |
juvera
16 hrs
|
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Thank you, Judith.
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| agree |
Alfa Trans (X)
16 hrs
|
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Thank you, Marju.
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| agree |
Mikhail Kropotov
: I'd rather like to see something closer to "Being hit hurts", only prettied up a bit :) +++ Can't say for sure that a good rendering of that thought exists, but "hitting hurts" suggests that hitting is painful for the hitter, unfortunately.
21 hrs
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I suppose you mean something more personal, for example "I hurt when I'm hit"?
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| agree |
tappi_k
22 hrs
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Thank you, my friend.
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| agree |
Robert Donahue (X)
22 hrs
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Thanks, Robert.
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| agree |
NancyLynn
2 days 10 hrs
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Thank you, Nancy.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks for all good alternatives.
Returning to my original title, I would like to have had some feedback as to which of the two verbs (hurt or break) best describes the long-lasting psychological effects of violence on children. Perhaps, I should have paraphrased my question: Would you prefer to use the verb “break” or “hurt” if you are required to express such negative psychological effects of violence?
"
6 mins
David Russi
United States
United States
Native in English
&
English
Works in field
United States
30+ years, stopped counting...
Native in: English 
, Spanish
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English
Related KudoZ points
:
21
Hitting hurts: Please don't! / Fragile: Do not hit!
Other possibilities:
Fragile: No hitting!
Breakable: Do not hit!
Fragile: No hitting!
Breakable: Do not hit!
+2
19 mins
Margaret Schroeder
Mexico
Mexico
Native in English
&
English
Mexico
The right words in the right place.
Native in: English (Variants: Canadian, US)
Works in: Spanish to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
20
evaluation of alternatives
1. Too compact to convey the meaning. Out of context, it is completely incomprehensible.
2. This is what they were trying to say with #1. It could be "Breaks if hit" but even so is still rather obscure.
3. OK
4. Comprehensible, but too wordy for a slogan.
5. Incorrect because of mixed tenses.
6. Not too bad, and as I understand your explanation of the Turkish original, this perhaps captures the meaning best but something about the gerund construction seems weak to me; as a slogan it doesn't have enough "punch".
2. This is what they were trying to say with #1. It could be "Breaks if hit" but even so is still rather obscure.
3. OK
4. Comprehensible, but too wordy for a slogan.
5. Incorrect because of mixed tenses.
6. Not too bad, and as I understand your explanation of the Turkish original, this perhaps captures the meaning best but something about the gerund construction seems weak to me; as a slogan it doesn't have enough "punch".
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Refugio
: I agree with you that number 3 is the best of the alternatives given. However, I wonder if it will have any effect on people who believe children should be hit.
44 mins
|
| agree |
Robert Donahue (X)
1 day 18 mins
|
+1
43 mins
Elizabeth Lyons
United States
United States
Native in English
&
English
United States
Scientist / Linguist
Native in: English (Variants: UK, US)
Works in: French to English, Italian to English, Portuguese to English, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
12
Fragile: will break if hit or Fragile: will break upon impact.
You suggested it yourself, this is just a combination of two of your phrases. There are many ways to convey this concept. Good luck:)
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
rangepost
: how about -Fragile:(spirit)will break upon ipact.
10 hrs
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Thanks, the addition of spirit certainly conveys its ultimate meaning. :)
|
46 mins
hitting causes damage, in mind and body
If I understand correctly, you are seeking a slogan to express the idea that hitting a child damages the child
the best one IMO is:
6. Hitting hurts
May I also suggest:
hitting causes damage, in mind and body
The terms you list vary from very minor (disappointed) to injured (major - could be broken bones, concussion, scars, etc.)
My suggestion is to "zone in" on the exact term you are trying to convey BEFORE writing the slogan. It makes a big difference.
the best one IMO is:
6. Hitting hurts
May I also suggest:
hitting causes damage, in mind and body
The terms you list vary from very minor (disappointed) to injured (major - could be broken bones, concussion, scars, etc.)
My suggestion is to "zone in" on the exact term you are trying to convey BEFORE writing the slogan. It makes a big difference.
7 hrs
Derek Gill Franßen
Germany
Germany
Native in English
&
English
Works in field
Germany
German Attorney & University Lecturer
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, English, English to German, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
12
When hitting hurts
...another possibility as a headline. Kids hit each other all the time, it rarely hurts them; but when adults do the hitting...
+5
1 hr
Hitting leaves invisible scars.
[PDF] Children’s Rights and Domestic Violence
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
cases in recent years where children have been beaten with ... leaves invisible
scars that affect many other aspects of life. (Strauss, 1994). ...
www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ jws/car/2000/00000009/00000006/art00660 - Similar pages
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Note added at 13 hrs 35 mins (2005-05-28 13:50:34 GMT)
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Or else something along the lines of:
Even a sapling, bent too far, will break.
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
cases in recent years where children have been beaten with ... leaves invisible
scars that affect many other aspects of life. (Strauss, 1994). ...
www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ jws/car/2000/00000009/00000006/art00660 - Similar pages
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Note added at 13 hrs 35 mins (2005-05-28 13:50:34 GMT)
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Or else something along the lines of:
Even a sapling, bent too far, will break.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Oso (X)
: Excellent! ¶:^)
1 hr
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Thank you!
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| agree |
lindaellen (X)
: This is the best so far, but what about the visible scars? - I like Ruth's addition "both visible and invisible" perhaps a little more fine tuning with a hyphen or colon instead of the comma - to add some extra emphasis.
2 hrs
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How about, Hitting leaves scars, both visible and invisible? // Thanks, Linda
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| agree |
Can Altinbay
: very nice. The point is that the hurt goes beyond the immediate pain and physical effects. I tried to tell them, but I wasn't good enough.
3 hrs
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Thank you, Can
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| agree |
Nanny Wintjens
7 hrs
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Thanks, NW
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| agree |
Mikhail Kropotov
22 hrs
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Thanks, Mikhail
|
4 hrs
Balasubramaniam L.
India
India
India
Fast, accurate, elegant translation
Native in: Hindi
Works in: English to Hindi, Hindi
Related KudoZ points
:
12
Some more suggestions
(My native language is Hindi)
Beating is Bad
Beating breaks their heart
Beating breaks their spirit
Beat them not, love them
Hit them not, love them
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Note added at 1 day 9 hrs 42 mins (2005-05-29 09:58:30 GMT)
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Be a hit with them, don\'t hit them
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Note added at 1 day 9 hrs 43 mins (2005-05-29 09:59:26 GMT)
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Hit out against the hitters
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Note added at 1 day 9 hrs 45 mins (2005-05-29 10:00:35 GMT)
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Choose someone your size!
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Note added at 1 day 9 hrs 49 mins (2005-05-29 10:05:04 GMT)
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Pick someone your size!
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Note added at 2 days 3 hrs 28 mins (2005-05-30 03:44:28 GMT)
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Hitters are critters
Beating is Bad
Beating breaks their heart
Beating breaks their spirit
Beat them not, love them
Hit them not, love them
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Note added at 1 day 9 hrs 42 mins (2005-05-29 09:58:30 GMT)
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Be a hit with them, don\'t hit them
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Note added at 1 day 9 hrs 43 mins (2005-05-29 09:59:26 GMT)
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Hit out against the hitters
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Note added at 1 day 9 hrs 45 mins (2005-05-29 10:00:35 GMT)
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Choose someone your size!
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Note added at 1 day 9 hrs 49 mins (2005-05-29 10:05:04 GMT)
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Pick someone your size!
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Note added at 2 days 3 hrs 28 mins (2005-05-30 03:44:28 GMT)
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Hitters are critters
Discussion
With respect to grading, I did suggest one of the alternatives listed, and therefore I may not be objective in deciding which is the most helpful. Currently, #6 seems to be winning. And I am not in a position to decide which one is the best. After all, that is why I referred the case to you. It is you to whom the message is supposed to appeal.
Therefore, I feel myself obliged to choose the most agreed upon alternative without leaving it to robot. Nevertheless, I will wait one more day to allow enough time to my esteemed colleagues to vote against, if they feel so, the most agreed alternative, i.e., #6.
and "hitting hurts" is #6