Feb 23, 2008 06:17
16 yrs ago
Chinese term

酌收零件成本费

Chinese to English Marketing Manufacturing Guarantee
如需换零件,本公司酌收零件成本费,服务手续费则免.
if spare parts are needed, the company would (consider?)

Discussion

Ralph Dunsdon (asker) Feb 28, 2008:
everyone's help was great, thank you all. To choose one wasn't easy, but "at our discretion' is what I used. Thanks again!
Huijun Suo Feb 24, 2008:
“酌收”的含蓄之处不在于收或不收,而在于收的理由和收多少,也就是视具体情况适当收取的意思。at one's discretion 强调一种权利(尤其是在合同中),和“酌情”有相当的差异。在有些词典中 discretion 也有“斟酌”这个义项,但其实前面最好加上“自行、自主”等修饰语,以免误会,即由某人自行斟酌、自主决定,而不用知会对方、征求对方意见(诸如“恕不通知”“解释权归我”之类)。
Angus Woo Feb 24, 2008:
I personally think one should first understand what 酌收 means, rather than whether discretion is the commonly used in any warranty policy web page or not, or whether it's “霸王条款”. To me the term means 斟酌情况收取, any suggestion?
lhcm Feb 24, 2008:
Regarding the use of the term “at one’s discretion”. Such wording is very very very common in writing an agreement, it doesn’t mean “霸王条款”. Please type agreement and discretion in google search.
agreement discretion
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=agreement discretio...
in the above quoted link, Nokia warranty policy webpage, search for “discretion”, you will also find the use of this term. Again, as I already explained in detail each possible scenario based on the possible understanding of the term “酌收”,and how to deal with those situations in terms of translation. Thanks!
Angus Woo Feb 24, 2008:
斟酌:考慮可否而決定取捨, it's not about discretion, it's about whether or not.
http://140.111.34.46/cgi-bin/newDict/dict.sh?cond=�r�u&piece...
Huijun Suo Feb 24, 2008:
个人认为 appropriate 是最简洁、最到位的说法。
Huijun Suo Feb 24, 2008:
既然原文用“酌情”以示委婉,那么用 at our discretion 似乎就有所不妥,显得比较硬:收多少由我们说了算,客户必须接受,感觉这跟国内某些垄断部门的“霸王条款”(规格型号如有变更恕不通知,解释权归本公司,等等)已经相差不远了。
Yongmei Liu Feb 24, 2008:
同意 hc_ha 的理解,即这是一定要收的含蓄讲法,不过这种含蓄还是不要的好,免生歧义。
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Feb 23, 2008:
@Ralph: In that case, well, the customer has already bought the product and delivery himself at the mercy of the company. No way out, even when he reads "at our discretion." I accept it as a right answer.
Ralph Dunsdon (asker) Feb 23, 2008:
Warranty Thanks to everyone for their help. Yes this is the actual warranty translation.
Shirley Lao Feb 23, 2008:
I believe the asker's question relates to the product warranty. Therefore, what is to be covered and what is not to be covered in this warranty are set forth therein. See http://www.nokia.com.au/A4521194
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Feb 23, 2008:
If a company did marketing that way, well, you know what would happen.
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Feb 23, 2008:
When a company is doing marketing, it won't put on an offensive/arrogant attitude by telling customers that there will be costs at the company's discretion, less the mercy of letting go the service fees.
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Feb 23, 2008:
Such texts like this one must be for marketing, telling potential customers: If you buy our equipments and need spare parts for replacement, the appropriate costs for/of the parts will be charged, but there won't further fees.
lhcm Feb 23, 2008:
根据“酌收”所含意思的可能性,分4种情况来分析,请参考答案中的添加部分。这道题有趣。 thanks!
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Feb 23, 2008:
成本当然是一个相对固定的概念,但每家公司的产品总有定价吧?既然都把产品卖给了客户,零件价总该早定了、早公布了吧?那么,零件的成本总不会超过零件的定价吧?还会有公司那么老实说,这个成本价要跟你收或不收、要收多少,就 at our discretion 看我们爽不爽的?后头还加上个“服务手续费则免”,好像开了什么恩似的!客户看了不火冒三丈,才怪!
lhcm Feb 23, 2008:
酌收是一个含蓄的表达,暗含的意思是“一定要收”。每个零件的“成本“是一个相对固定的。这里的“酌收”,如果理解成,看情况再说,收多少到时候再算,如果是这样的话,这个公司就成了“自由市场”了,没有一个固定的规矩。同样的,at our discretion 并不是说“收不收到时再算”而是告诉顾客,这个收费是一定要收,是由我们说了算,不可以讨价还价。因为是前面用了含蓄的被动语态will be charged,表示该收费的客观性,(显示公道,非人为强加),那么,在后面用一个“at our discretion“来限定这种客观性的不容改变,是建立在我们的决定上。也就是说,这个客观事实,您必须接受。
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Feb 23, 2008:
这也是为何我把 the appropriate costs 放在一起的原因,好让这个区别清楚些。
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Feb 23, 2008:
对的,appropriate 指的是 costs,discrete 指的是裁量要不要收取。
Jason Ma Feb 23, 2008:
斟酌什么呢? 如果是斟酌收多少,个人感觉appropriate costs 就不错;如果是在说该不该收成本费, the cost of pars will be charged at our discrestion比较贴近。不知我理解得对不对。 望赐教!

Proposed translations

+1
5 hrs
Selected

the cost of parts will be charged at our discretion

If replacement of parts is necessary, the cost of parts will be charged at our discretion, no service fee applies.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2008-02-23 11:28:31 GMT)
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or
If replacement of parts is needed, the cost of parts will be charged at our discretion, no service fee applies.


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Note added at 5 hrs (2008-02-23 11:36:52 GMT)
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Note: if spare parts are needed 的意思是:如需备件,指作备用的零件。

如需换零件---- 的“换”,(是用好的把坏的换下来)replacement.
This process includes :1. parts 2. replacement ( replace the faulty one with the good one.)
1. the cost of parts 2. the labour/service etc involved for the replacement.


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Note added at 7 hrs (2008-02-23 13:30:09 GMT)
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酌收是一个含蓄的表达,暗含的意思是“一定要收”。每个零件的“成本“是一个相对固定的。这里的“酌收”,如果理解成,看情况再说,收多少到时候再算,如果是这样的话,这个公司就成了“自由市场”了,没有一个固定的规矩。同样的,at our discretion 并不是说“收不收到时再算”而是告诉顾客,这个收费是一定要收,是由我们说了算,不可以讨价还价。因为是前面用了含蓄的被动语态will be charged,表示该收费的客观性,(显示公道,非人为强加),那么,在后面用一个“at our discretion“来限定这种客观性的不容改变,是建立在我们的决定上。也就是说,这个客观事实,您必须接受。

从另外一个角度考虑“酌收“,也是我最初的想法,就是“每个零件的成本各有不同”,这里的“酌情”就是根据具体零件的成本,作相应的收费。这也是合理的practice. 因此,句子就翻译成
If replacement of parts is needed/necessary , the cost of parts will be charged accordingly, no service fee applies.


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Note added at 7 hrs (2008-02-23 13:33:31 GMT)
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no service fee applies--------- another better alternative is:
no service fees apply

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Note added at 7 hrs (2008-02-23 14:13:26 GMT)
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如果是要说,到时候收不收,要看具体情况再算,句子中的“will“就得换成”may” 了。
If replacement of parts is needed/necessary , the cost of parts may be charged accordingly, no service fee applies.
Or
If replacement of parts is needed/necessary, the cost of parts may be charged at our discretion, no service fee applies.

如果说,“酌收”是指要收取“那个成本价中的多少比例”到时再决定。这个可能性,从做生意的角度看,不太可能,也不值得提倡。这是一个服务性条款的内容,说成这样不明不白,这样可多可少。给人一种uncertainty “不确定”的感觉。这样的公司,估计在顾客中的形象就是那些狡猾的奸商,随势头而行事。因此,我把这种可能性排除了。看到Jason 把问题提出后,我才google了“酌收”的有关网页,看过后,感觉是“酌收”的意思跟我的原想法相同,是一个含蓄的用语,暗含的意思是“要收”。同时,另外“成本价”就每个具体零件是相对固定的,因此,不含有到时再考虑收取其中多少比例的意思,有些网站上把价格也列明了。


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Note added at 8 hrs (2008-02-23 14:30:20 GMT)
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Conclusion: 根据“酌收”所含意思的可能性,分以下几种情况,及其相应的译法:(其中的needed 和necessary 以供选择之用,具体写成条文时,只用其中一个)
1.酌收是一个含蓄的表达,暗含的意思是“一定要收”。
If replacement of parts is needed/necessary, the cost of parts will be charged at our discretion, no service fees apply

2.酌收是一个含蓄的表达,暗含的意思是“要收成本费,具体多少,根据具体零件的成本价”
If replacement of parts is needed/necessary, the cost of parts will be charged accordingly, no service fees apply

3.“酌收”的“酌”,是酌情考虑“到时候收不收,要看具体情况再算”。
If replacement of parts is needed/necessary, the cost of parts may be charged at our discretion, no service fees apply

4.“酌收”是指要酌情考虑“那个成本价中的多少比例(例如成本价是60元,到时是收50呢,还是40呢,还是30呢等等”,到时再决定。
如果是这样,我就不跟这家公司做生意了,也不要给它当翻译啰。 :-)


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Note added at 8 hrs (2008-02-23 15:07:34 GMT)
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根据网上的用例,就我扫读到的,全是以上第一,第二种的情形,请点击以下连接,阅读一下用例,绝大多数用例上,都有固定列明的价格,要么是一个定价,要么是一个定价范围。
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=酌收&hl=en&start=10&sa=N

最后的结论,为了把第一种情形,和第二种情形,都包括在译文中,可以把两者合二为一,成为:
If replacement of parts is needed/necessary, the cost of parts will be charged accordingly at our discretion, no service fees apply

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Note added at 8 hrs (2008-02-23 15:17:34 GMT)
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或者,把“at our discretion”去掉也影响不大,因为will be 已经肯定了“要收”,至于“酌情”,就是考虑具体是哪个零件,就有哪个零件的相应成本价(注意:这里的成本价,是该公司所定的,当然比标价便宜,但是不一定是该公司真正的买入价,因为,它可以把该公司的有关费用包含进去,例如存货费,人员管理费等等),用accordingly 就包含了这种“酌情”。
If replacement of parts is needed/necessary, the cost of parts will be charged accordingly, no service fees apply

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Note added at 9 hrs (2008-02-23 15:24:20 GMT)
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用accordingly 就包含了这种“酌情”-----就是考虑具体是哪个零件,就有哪个零件的相应成本价。
例如,A 零件, 标价50元,如需换零件时,收取的成本价是35元
B 零件, 标价60元,如需换零件时,收取的成本价是45元
C 零件, 标价150元,如需换零件时,收取的成本价是120元
accordingly means: if the A part is needed, then 35 will be charged, if B, then 45, if C, then 120.

Peer comment(s):

agree ADELLEBJ
3 days 13 hrs
"the cost of parts will be charged accordingly" is my initial thought and my finial decision. Thanks!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+3
14 mins

the appropriate costs of the parts will be charged

If spare parts are needed, the appropriate costs of the parts will be charged, but no further charges, such as service processing fees.
Peer comment(s):

agree Jason Ma : costs of the parts willl be charged, as appropriate. 酌收 is short for 酌情收取???
5 hrs
Thanks. Actually, "appropriate" is the word for 酌情.
agree Huijun Suo
1 day 5 hrs
谢谢!到底是 appropriate costs 还是 cost at our discretion,这可得由英语母语者的提问人决定了。
agree Malcolm Mayfield : Good solution separating "appropriate" and "charge"; otherwise, perhaps "will charge appropriate costs for such parts"
2 days 23 hrs
Thanks. I guess that would avoid the definition of costs for parts. Besides, "as appropriate" is always "at our discretion."
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+2
1 hr

charge the cost of the parts at the rate to be decided by the company

酌收是指看情况确定具体该收多少,决定权在于公司
Peer comment(s):

agree Shirley Lao : charge the cost of the parts at the discretion of the company/charge the cost of the parts at its discretion
27 mins
agree Dilshod Madolimov
9 hrs
Something went wrong...
7 hrs

the costs of replacement parts shall be charged in the consideration of the relevant situation

i believe 酌收 means "charge in consideration of relevant situation", i.e. 斟酌相關情況收取.


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Note added at 7 hrs (2008-02-23 14:06:08 GMT)
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or
the costs of replacement parts shall be charged in the consideration of the status quo ante
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11 hrs

charges for parts are discretionary

這較精簡
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