Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
pédagogiste
English translation:
pedagogist
Added to glossary by
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
Sep 18, 2008 09:20
15 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
pédagogiste
French to English
Social Sciences
Education / Pedagogy
The context concerns the history of education indicators. The actual phrase is *pédagogues et pédagogistes en action* with the implication that their approach is different, even opposed. If I use "educationalist" for "pédagogue", does anyone have any ideas for *pédagogiste*?
For a definition of *pédagogiste*, see: http://www.guichetdusavoir.org/ipb/index.php?showtopic=7915
where I found this: "On naît intelligent, on devient instruit» : le pédagogiste rejette cette idée reçue. Il pense au contraire qu’on ne naît pas intelligent, mais qu’on le devient. Il n’y a au départ pas d’enfants plus ou moins intelligents, il n’y a que des enfants plus ou moins rapides. Le pédagogiste part aussi du principe que l’enfant est naturellement disposé à apprendre, que son ennui et plus encore son échec ne peuvent s’expliquer que par l’insuffisance du personnel scolaire".
Il ne vous reste plus qu'à trouver des "pégagogistes" ayant pu prononcer ces mots et correspondants à cette définition : Il y a entre le pédagogue et le pédagogiste la même différence qu’il y a entre le philosophe et l’idéologue, entre le passionné et le maniaque, entre le croyant et le sectaire. Le pédagogiste est l’«homme d’un seul livre», et, par malheur pour les élèves, ce livre est une méthode scolaire.
Yikes!
For a definition of *pédagogiste*, see: http://www.guichetdusavoir.org/ipb/index.php?showtopic=7915
where I found this: "On naît intelligent, on devient instruit» : le pédagogiste rejette cette idée reçue. Il pense au contraire qu’on ne naît pas intelligent, mais qu’on le devient. Il n’y a au départ pas d’enfants plus ou moins intelligents, il n’y a que des enfants plus ou moins rapides. Le pédagogiste part aussi du principe que l’enfant est naturellement disposé à apprendre, que son ennui et plus encore son échec ne peuvent s’expliquer que par l’insuffisance du personnel scolaire".
Il ne vous reste plus qu'à trouver des "pégagogistes" ayant pu prononcer ces mots et correspondants à cette définition : Il y a entre le pédagogue et le pédagogiste la même différence qu’il y a entre le philosophe et l’idéologue, entre le passionné et le maniaque, entre le croyant et le sectaire. Le pédagogiste est l’«homme d’un seul livre», et, par malheur pour les élèves, ce livre est une méthode scolaire.
Yikes!
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Sep 25, 2008 16:17: Beatriz Ramírez de Haro Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+1
9 mins
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
Spain
Spain
Works in field
Spain
Golf, Literature and Religion Specialist
Native in: Spanish 
Works in: English to Spanish, French to Spanish, Spanish
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Selected
pedagogues and pedagogists
... in action"
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
katsy
: Perfect - or simply "teacher" for "pedagogue"..
1 hr
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Good option. Thank you, katsy - Bea
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| neutral |
Charles Stanford
: I think you have got to make it clear that one is negative. From what I can tell pedagogist is just a synonym for pedagogue - essentially "teacher" - Katsy where did you get "educational theorist"? isn't that better than pedagogist? Perhaps I am wrong...
1 hr
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"pedagogism" is a consecrated term for a particular teaching school of thought. Why change it?
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks to everyone for this very interesting discussion and all your suggestions. I eventually went for *teachers and pedagogists* (as katsy suggested in this answer) and have had no return from the customer - so I assume it meets with their approval! It was a difficult one and I only made my final decision once I'd finished the translation - so much depends on overall context, doesn't it? Special thanks to Charles for the lively discussion which was just as important in clarifying my own perceptions as the answer - wish I could share the points!"
10 mins
educational guru
I'm guessing here but it almost sounds a bit negative
1 hr
Anne Farina
France
France
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&
English
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With passion and complicity...
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:
20
Specialists on pedagogy
http://appy.ecole.free.fr/actualites/pedagogisme.pdf
Qu'est-ce que le pédagogisme ? Il est nécessaire de faire un retour sur cette conception de l'enseignement qui, née de groupes de réflexion qui existent depuis plus de 100 ans a été imposée dogmatiquement à tous les professeurs depuis la loi d'orientation de 1989, et irrigue les discours de nombreux formateurs de l'IUFM (...)
Pedagogists are "pedagogues".
Qu'est-ce que le pédagogisme ? Il est nécessaire de faire un retour sur cette conception de l'enseignement qui, née de groupes de réflexion qui existent depuis plus de 100 ans a été imposée dogmatiquement à tous les professeurs depuis la loi d'orientation de 1989, et irrigue les discours de nombreux formateurs de l'IUFM (...)
Pedagogists are "pedagogues".
+1
1 hr
Charles Stanford
Czech Republic
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Works in: Czech to English, Slovak to English, German to English, and 3 more.
pedantic "pedagogues"
My dictionary has two entries for pedagogue (no sign of pedagogist but it is quite old!):
1. A schoolteacher or educator
2. One who instructs in a pedantic or dogmatic manner.
Doesn't help you much because you have got to find 2 different words. I think that pedagogue is probably more accepted as just meaning a "schoolteacher", so perhaps you would have to add "pedantic" before "pedagogue". You could try "educationalists or pedantic "pedagogues" in action" - keeping the quotation marks around pedagogue.... Incidentally I see that "pedant" used to be used to refer to a "schoolteacher" - If you Google the phrase "pedagogue or pedant" then you get a few hits where they are being used as synonyms. Suppose it depends on the register and context as well as to how you tackle it. HTH Charlie
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-18 11:03:11 GMT)
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Maybe you could try "pedagocrat" - see this link to an article about education in France where the term is used (in inverted commas):
www.springerlink.com/index/K333364561411M75.pdf
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-18 11:11:00 GMT)
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Maybe "teachers and educational theorists" - you could avoid pedagogues and pedagogists completely, since after all they are both pretty obsolete terms and if you call a teacher a pedagogue it would be assumed that you are being ironic...
1. A schoolteacher or educator
2. One who instructs in a pedantic or dogmatic manner.
Doesn't help you much because you have got to find 2 different words. I think that pedagogue is probably more accepted as just meaning a "schoolteacher", so perhaps you would have to add "pedantic" before "pedagogue". You could try "educationalists or pedantic "pedagogues" in action" - keeping the quotation marks around pedagogue.... Incidentally I see that "pedant" used to be used to refer to a "schoolteacher" - If you Google the phrase "pedagogue or pedant" then you get a few hits where they are being used as synonyms. Suppose it depends on the register and context as well as to how you tackle it. HTH Charlie
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-18 11:03:11 GMT)
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Maybe you could try "pedagocrat" - see this link to an article about education in France where the term is used (in inverted commas):
www.springerlink.com/index/K333364561411M75.pdf
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-09-18 11:11:00 GMT)
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Maybe "teachers and educational theorists" - you could avoid pedagogues and pedagogists completely, since after all they are both pretty obsolete terms and if you call a teacher a pedagogue it would be assumed that you are being ironic...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Melissa McMahon
: I think you are on the right track with your last suggestion - maybe "teachers and pedagogues" (cf. "philosophers and ideologues") or "teachers and educationalists" - wouldn't use 'educationalist' for the positive term
1 hr
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thank you Melissa
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4 hrs
Katarina Peters
Canada
Canada
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Accuracy and A1 presentation
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7
educatorist
a coin-up word to match
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Note added at 4 hrs (2008-09-18 13:39:52 GMT)
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or: educational specialist
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Note added at 4 hrs (2008-09-18 13:39:52 GMT)
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or: educational specialist
4 hrs
Jean-Claude Gouin
Canada
Canada
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:
28
the pedagogues and the pseudo-pedagogues
I'd rather be a pedagogue than a pseudo-pedagogue ...
Discussion
Insofar as 'pédagogie' in FR is NOT pejorative, and 'pédagogue' is perhaps seen as the speaker being pedantic rather than referring to a pedant, this article seems to use 'pédagogiste' to refer to the pedant, as opposed to the 'legitimate' teacher. Won't withdraw my agree to Bea, but maybe "teachers and pedants" would do the trick. In Caroline's sentence I still get the impression it's talking about those who actually teach and those who spout on about it.....