C.M. Rawal Feb 18, 2009:

As suggested by Mr. Lalit Sati, this off-topic may now better be discussed in the Hindi Forum.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 18, 2009:

Agree Mr. Rawal. So this implies that "स्क" is a suffix. Could you please give more examples using this suffix?

C.M. Rawal Feb 18, 2009:

We should behave like adults. Pl. see my explanation:"It refers to the age i.e. वय and the word वयस्क means..." Now, if we write व्‍यस्‍क, then how we would tell its meaning or origin. It is not a proper noun which may be written in any way one likes.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 18, 2009:

Excellent suggestion Lalit.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 18, 2009:

I AM REMOVING THE PAGE TO AVOID ANY COPYRIGHT ISSUES. I don't think it really applies because of the age of the book but just to be sure...

Lalit Sati Feb 18, 2009:

मेरा सुझाव है कि हिंदी भाषा की दशा, दिशा और अब तक की विकास-यात्रा पर 'हिंदी फोरम' में यह विमर्श आगे बढ़ाया जाए।

Ritu Bhanot Feb 18, 2009:

Correctness of spelling as it is today and linguistic history are two different things. I never said that the new spelling is wrong. But just gave a perspective on the basis of information that I had.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 18, 2009:

And he is not around to defend himself.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 18, 2009:

Of course, all of us can say that the author may be a Professor and still be immature. Unfortunately, I can't say anything about that because I never met him in person (impossible because of the fact that it was another era).

Ritu Bhanot Feb 18, 2009:

And this dictionary is a real treasure if you are studying literature as it has lots of terms that are not used in everyday language (or probably used in the Hindi Belt but not in urban India).

Ritu Bhanot Feb 18, 2009:

I am not talking about the correct spellings today. But was looking at the fact why there are two different spellings. And I observed that it was because of the way Hindi has developed.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 18, 2009:

And the Author of this dictionary was Professor in those days.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 18, 2009:

Rawal ji, you think that the author of this dictionary is an immature scholar/ student... Well, I don't think so. It is more a question of history than language. This dictionary is older than all of us.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 18, 2009:

I think we are talking about different things. All of you are talking about present day. Whereas I am talking about development of a language.

आनंद Feb 18, 2009:

ऋतु जी, मेरी राय में भी व्‍यस्‍क शब्‍द ग़लत है। सही शब्‍द वयस्‍क होना चाहिए। जैसा कि रावल साहब ने व्‍यवसायिक शब्‍द में भी गड़बड़ी पकड़ी है। मेरी पूरी सहमति रावल साहब के साथ है। आपका तर्क सही है पर उनकी आड़ लेकर वर्तनी की ग़लतियों को नकारा नहीं जा सकता।

Lalit Sati Feb 17, 2009:

मैं रावल जी से सहमत हूँ।

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

Hindi Hindi has travelled a long way. Just an example, when I was young we were taught to write अ in a very different way. It was quite difficult and I'm glad that we don't write like that anymore. Looks like the old अ has completely disappeared. <BR><BR>There are many other changes that I've seen. And one of them is in the way people write my name...<BR><BR>Now, how would you write my name (Ritu Bhanot)?<BR>

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

It is not a sub-standard dictionary (I don't agree with some things but that's besides the point). These were correct spellings in those days... please remember that every language is a living entity. I think it shows the way Hindi has travelled.

C.M. Rawal Feb 17, 2009:

This appears to be a sub-standard dictionary, compiled by some immature Hindi scholar/student where even the spellings of the first word on this page, i.e., व्यवसायिक are wrong. The correct spellings are व्यावसायिक. Kindly refer to a standard dictionary.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

Please go to this link. I've scanned the page in question from an old dictionary:
http://ritu.bhanot.googlepages.com/IMG_0001.jpg

You will have to zoom to see it clearly.

I checked dictionaries before commenting.

C.M. Rawal Feb 17, 2009:

यह एक प्रसिद्ध लोगो की परामर्शदागी समिति है जो निदेशालय की कार्यवाहियो को दिशा निर्देश प्रदान करती है !

अन्य जानकारी के लिए सम्पर्क करे :
डा. (श्रीमति) सुजाता रॉय
निदेशक
हिन्दी कार्यांवन निदेशालय
दिल्ली विश्‍वविद्यालय
दिल्ली - 110 007
फोन : 27

C.M. Rawal Feb 17, 2009:

One can watch the correctness of DU Hindi from the following example:
हिन्दी कार्यांवन का निदेशालय
निदेशालय प्रसिद्ध संस्थानो तथा लेखको की पुस्तको के प्रकाशन से जुड़ा रहा है ! हिन्दी के प्रयोग को विभिन्न विष्यो में कार्यवाही की भाषा के रूप में प्रोत्साहन देने के लिए इस्ने बहुत सी पुस्तको, अनुवाद तथा अन्य सामग्री का प्रकाशन किया है

C.M. Rawal Feb 17, 2009:

The word व्यस्क is not an Hindi अपभ्रंश word and you won't find it in any dictionary. However, this is written wrongly by some persons out of confusion due to its phonetic similarity with many other words like व्यस्त, व्यक्त, etc. starting with half 'व'.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

I gave an example and it is off-topic.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

When I say the DU uses its own students, I know what I'm talking about. We had to help out in library reorganisation & computerization as a student of MA in GRS Dept. of DU. Of course, all of us worked for free.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

So different people use different words and spelling according to their own personal preferences... Obviously, there's no consistency.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

As far as web-sites are concerned, I guess they lack consistency because many people are involved and DU departments often use their own students to do this sort of work

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

You are right Suyash. But it also depends on the time, context etc. I may use परगट when I write a literary text or a literary comment or in some other contexts :-)

Suyash Suprabh Feb 17, 2009:

Ritu, one can always choose between two ways of writing and follow it consistently.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

Lalit, you are forgetting old dictionaries. Asker gave the links, I checked different dictionaries. I based my comment on the basis of evolution of a language.

Lalit Sati Feb 17, 2009:

ऋतु जी, वर्तनी की दृष्टि से वयस्क सही शब्द है। यह ठीक है कि अन्य कई अशुद्धियों की तरह व्यस्क का भी प्रयोग होता है। जहाँ तक "good ones" हिंदी साइटों की बात है, उनमें वर्तनी की त्रुटियों का पाया जाना कोई आश्चर्य की बात नहीं।

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

Just as was the case with Kabir. Of course, it doesn't change the fact that in school Hindi it will be regarded as an अपभ्रंश word. I regard it as a word in transit... let's see where it lands :-)

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

I'm not saying that the other one is incorrect. Otherwise I'd have mentioned a disagree. I didn't because I consider that both are correct in present circumstances.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

In case of DU it's the name of a DEPARTMENT and not just a word. And this name is consistent.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

And I'm not just talking about web-sites. Look at GOI forms, more than 90% have the old spelling.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

Suyash, use of anusvaar and chandrabindu is not at all consistent in Hindi. We study one thing in school and then there's something quite different later.

Suyash Suprabh Feb 17, 2009:

Ritu, there are more spelling errors (कार्यांवय, उपलब्धियॉ etc.) on the Hindi website of Delhi University. Also, there is no consistency in the use of anusvaar and chandranindu.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

I guess, it depends on the context. It is ok to use the अपभ्रंश form in normal literary text but maybe one should continue using the old form for official documents till the concerned authorities accept the change...

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

And language is something that evolves with time so if the words that were considered wrong in the past become common now, it's a natural phenomenon. It's possible that all the wrong spellings that we see on roads and hoardings may become correct...

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

And both can be found in Hindi to English dictionaries. You can't say that कबीर wrote wrong Hindi because he used परगट instead of प्रकट etc. Usually the form that has "full character" is the अपभ्रंश form.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

अपभ्रंश doesn't mean incorrect because lots of अपभ्रंश words are present and used in Hindi Literature especially भक्ति-काल Literature and several words containing "half-characters" become ones with "full characters" पर्वत - परबत, प्रकाश - परकास.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

But GOI continues to use the old form instead of the more commonly used new form.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

Most old dictionaries have the "wrong" spelling. And new ones "right" spelling. So it looks like a case of old अपभ्रंश form becoming the correct and accepted form.

Ritu Bhanot Feb 17, 2009:

Suyash, if you note there is also a link to व्यस्क शिक्षा निरंतरता और विस्तार विभाग of Delhi University. And all these sites are good ones.

I think it is more a question of अपभ्रंश and संस्कृतनिष्ठ हिंदी instead of spelling.

Suyash Suprabh Feb 17, 2009:

You will find many spelling errors on the Internet. Mostly, these errors are caused by lack of professional approach towards proofreading and editing.

AGV_18 (asker) Feb 17, 2009:

So why do all these sites use the wrong spelling. FYI these include sites of Delhi University, Railways and GOI depts.:


http://labour.delhigovt.nic.in/act/rules_hindi/Building and ...

http://www.du.ac.in/hindi/dept_course_details.html?departmen...

http://www.indg.gov.in/health/diseases/93293f92e94d92b94791f...

http://www.rashtriyasahara.com/RegionalDetailFrame.aspx?news... (Newspaper)

http://www.irctc.co.in/iticketGuideh.html (Indian Railways)

http://www.logosdictionary.org/pls/dictionary/new_dictionary...

http://www.unaids.org.in/hindi/press_rel_ARCHIVE.asp

http://rojgarsamachar.gov.in/careerdetails.asp?id=300

http://www.delhi.gov.in/wps/wcm/connect/doit_labour/Labour/H...