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coefficient k ou kc
patois de la langue anglaise
Jan 6, 2012 04:24
12 yrs ago
French term

fonctionnement du gérondif

French to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters grammar
fonctionnement du gérondif dans certains patois de la langue anglaise

(titre d'un travail universitaire)
Proposed translations (English)
2 +6 the functioning of the gerund
4 +1 the uses of the ing-form...
3 +2 How the gerund works in...
5 use of the gerund
3 +1 role of the gerund
Change log

Jan 6, 2012 10:25: writeaway changed "Field" from "Art/Literary" to "Other" , "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "grammar"

Discussion

Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jan 17, 2012:
@ Bigula I am afraid that I do not understand the logic of saying that you prefer 'function' but would only use the gerund as it is an academic text. I beg to differ with this approach and would stress the importance of simply going for what is correct, 'function'. Indeed, it might even be argued, that where the text is academic, all the more reason to be spot on! I suppose you mean in terms of register but the choice here is not one of register, but of the grammar quite simply being right or wrong.
chris collister Jan 7, 2012:
Is "smoking jacket" a candidate? Given that the jacket is not itself smoking, either after self-ignition or having stuffed a fag in its mouth (?), and that its purpose is associated with the wearer's act of (actively) smoking a cigarette, it seems to me that it is not necessarily unqualified for the title of gerundive, in which case the gerundive does indeed exist. Others might/will disagree...
rkillings Jan 7, 2012:
Fowler's comeuppance The real fun regarding Fowler and gerunds is recounted in the so-callled 3rd edition (1986). A commenter elsewhere recommends that one "read the article 'Possessive with gerund' in The New Fowler's Modern English (revised by Robert Burchfield). He describes a fierce battle Fowler had with the grammarian Otto Jespersen over the question in the 1920s whether it was correct to speak of 'women
having the vote' or whether it should be 'women's having the vote'. Jespersen gave numerous examples of the first form being used [first
form's being used?] by writers from Swift to Shaw, and said that Fowler's article was 'a typical specimen of the method of what I call
the instinctive grammatical moralizer'."
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jan 7, 2012:
Basically anyway here, once the asker gets into the bulk of the content, the meaning should become clear.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jan 7, 2012:
Charming source! As it happens I agree with what he said, but I would never stand up in court and defend modern English with a source from 1926! Like it though!
rkillings Jan 7, 2012:
Gerundives in English? "1.Gerund)(gerundive. The second word is of importance only with regard to languages that possess the thing, of which English does not happen to be one; but, as its being occasionally used for the other word /gerund/, which /is/ of importance in English grammar, may cause confusion … the word /gerundive/ has accordingly no proper function in English grammar." -- H. W. Fowler, 1926
SJLD Jan 6, 2012:
What ever happened to adjectival present participles?
I don't think smoking jacket works as a gerundive, unless you smoke the jacket.
chris collister Jan 6, 2012:
@sjld You got there first! Highly amusing. But does the gerundive exist? Chewing gum? Smoking jacket?
SJLD Jan 6, 2012:
a bit of linguistic fun (is that allowed here?) http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm?blog_id...
cc in nyc Jan 6, 2012:
@ Yana It might help if you tell us what the paper is about. :-|
SJLD Jan 6, 2012:
The translation of the French "gérondif" is gerund. English does not use gerundives.
chris collister Jan 6, 2012:
It rather depends on how the author goes on to expand his/her thesis. USE of the gerundive (NB gerund is a noun, gerundive an adjective) sounds more natural, but "functioning", although itself a gerund, sounds a little clunky for a title. Rephrase, perhaps: "The gerundive - its place in certain patois of the English language", though "jargon" may be more appropriate than patois.

Proposed translations

+6
3 hrs
Selected

the functioning of the gerund

Is this a possibility in English?

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Note added at 3 hrs (2012-01-06 07:43:26 GMT)
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Sinon, j'utiliserais personnellement "use" (but I am not a native speaker)
Peer comment(s):
agree SJLD : function of the gerund - no need to use the gerund "functioning" since there is a perfectly good noun!/function means "what it does" "what it is used for", which I think is the meaning here
8 mins
Merci SJLD. Bus does "the function of" mean "how it functions"? (this is how I understand "the functioning").
agree cc in nyc : I like "function" too // Sorry, no way would I say "the functioning of the gerund." :-(
30 mins
Merci CC. Don't you think that "the functioning of" is better?. Can't you say for instance "the functioning of the verb in the sentence"? As you see I don't give up easily, a real pitbull, a French one of course :-). OK, thank you CC
agree writeaway : literal translation works fine here. it is about the function of a part of speech
41 mins
OK, merci
agree AllegroTrans : function, not functioning
2 hrs
Merci AllegroTrans
agree HeleneG : Also agree with this, but using "function". "Function" means how something works.
8 hrs
Merci Helene
neutral Lara Barnett : Function and functioning are two different things.
9 hrs
agree Bigula : I prefer function, and I'd only use "gerund" because this seems to be a academic text.
2 days 12 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+1
9 mins

role of the gerund

Comme titre (et sans beaucoup de contexte).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2012-01-06 04:48:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

@ Asker: "Operation" sounds a little strange to me when speaking of parts of speech. "Use" is possible, but to my ear it sounds like the decision to use a gerund form (as opposed to a nominal form). What exactly is being covered in the thesis?
Note from asker:
My asker hesitates between "operation" and "use". "Role" is something new. Does it really convey the sense of "fonctionnement"?
Peer comment(s):
agree chris collister
4 hrs
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
+1
7 hrs

the uses of the ing-form...

Apparently the denomination of the -ing form is still a hot topic of debate. 'Gerund' is only applicable if it is used as a noun. 'Gerundive' refers to Classical languages and some others, but not English. Most call it the 'ing-form' for want of a better word.

My husband who is British and a long-standing teacher of English would settle for 'uses' as this may address several aspects. For the next part of the sentence, see next question.
Peer comment(s):
neutral cc in nyc : IMO NG as this would include present participles... unless of course the paper in question includes them too... But Yana remains mum. :-(( // OOPS! The context is the "la langue anglaise."
48 mins
gérondif is wider than a gerund in English, as I said.
agree rkillings : Good solution. In practice, English gerunds map to French infinitives, and French gérondifs to English participial forms. But you could probably call the author of the study a gerund-grinder, q.v.
14 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
8 hrs

How the gerund works in...

"fonctionnement" does differ in French from "fonction". Note Larousse, note the difference here, particularly in reference to "fonction" for linguistic contexts. Given that "fonction" is a grammatical term, then focntionnement is apart. I agree that the word functioning would not be right here. Function might not be correct either. The content on the paper will guide the ASker into deciding the meaning intended, unless of course the writer has misused the term.

If I had no way to check with the writer, I'd stick with an explanatory heading or something similar.

FONCTIONNEMENT
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/fonctionnement...


Fait de fonctionner ; manière dont fonctionne quelque chose : Le fonctionnement d'un appareil. Le bon fonctionnement des institutions.

FONCTION
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/fonction

Linguistique
Rôle joué par un élément linguistique dans la structure grammaticale de la phrase. (On parle de fonction sujet et de fonction prédicat, qui définissent les relations fondamentales de la phrase, et des fonctions compléments [objet, circonstances], qui viennent en préciser ou en étoffer le sens.)

In order to decide which meaning is intended here, then the content of the paragraph it heads up needs to be considered.

On face value, I would take the ordinary meaning of "fonctionnement" to describe how and "fonction" to describe a role occupied. Indeed in CM2, where I worked for a year, classes spend hours pouring over type/fonction/ of particular words in phrases!
Peer comment(s):
agree cc in nyc : I like this too. ;-)
1 hr
agree piazza d
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 day 11 hrs

use of the gerund

-
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