Feb 15, 2012 13:57
12 yrs ago
4 viewers *
Portuguese term
pessoas civis ou mercantis
Non-PRO
Portuguese to English
Law/Patents
Law: Taxation & Customs
As importâncias pagas ou creditadas a pessoas jurídicas, civis ou mercantis, pela prestação de serviços caracterizadamente de natureza profissional sujeitam-se à tributação na fonte mediante aplicação da alíquota de 1,5% (art. 647 do RIR/99 e Lei nº 9.064/95 art. 6º).
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | legal entities, whether civil or commercial |
Sheryle Oliver
|
| 4 -1 | individuals or businesses |
Melissa Mann
|
| 3 | private consumers or traders |
Adrian MM. (X)
|
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:
PRO (2): Adrian MM. (X), Sheryle Oliver
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Proposed translations
-1
5 mins
Melissa Mann
Brazil
Brazil
Native in English
Works in field
Brazil
*elegant spoken & written communication*
Native in: English 
Works in: Portuguese to English, Spanish to English, English to Portuguese, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
individuals or businesses
Declined
thus: legal entities, individuals or businesses
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Note added at 22 mins (2012-02-15 14:19:04 GMT)
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Hence:
individuals = pessoas civis / pessoas físicas
legal entities = pessoas jurídicas
businesses = pessoas mercantis
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Note added at 23 mins (2012-02-15 14:20:15 GMT)
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HENCE:
pessoas físicas / pessoas civis = INDIVIDUALS
pessoas jurídicas = LEGAL ENTITIES
pessoas mercantis = BUSINESSES
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Note added at 39 mins (2012-02-15 14:36:44 GMT)
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Ok, I see your point. My modified response (and I would argue that the author simply avoided using the word pessoas 3 times:
individuals (or civilians) = pessoas civis
taxpaying individuals (or registered individuals) = pessoas físicas
legal entities = pessoas jurídicas
businesses = pessoas mercantis
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 mins (2012-02-15 14:19:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Hence:
individuals = pessoas civis / pessoas físicas
legal entities = pessoas jurídicas
businesses = pessoas mercantis
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 mins (2012-02-15 14:20:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
HENCE:
pessoas físicas / pessoas civis = INDIVIDUALS
pessoas jurídicas = LEGAL ENTITIES
pessoas mercantis = BUSINESSES
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2012-02-15 14:36:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Ok, I see your point. My modified response (and I would argue that the author simply avoided using the word pessoas 3 times:
individuals (or civilians) = pessoas civis
taxpaying individuals (or registered individuals) = pessoas físicas
legal entities = pessoas jurídicas
businesses = pessoas mercantis
Note from asker:
| But aren't "individuals" in EN "pessoas fisicas" in PT, and therefore NOT part of "pessoas jurídicas" by definition? |
| Melissa, are you saying that "pessoas civis" and "pessoas físicas" are synonyms? I don't know, you may be right. But why would two different definitions be used to describe one thing within one and the same law? Synonyms are good in fiction literature, not in tax laws, I guess. |
| OK, but aren't legal entities set up to do business in the first place? Why distinguish LEGAL entities vs. BUSINESSES? |
| Besides, judging from the punctuation (commas on both sides), "civis ou mercantis" seem to be subtypes within the "pessoas jurídicas" category. Like "pessoas jurídicas" can be broken down into "civis" ou "mercantis," respectively. I'm thinking of the two different "legal forms" that "legal persons" may assume: say, partnership vs. INC. (or LLC), etc. |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Mark Robertson
: A natural person can never be a "pessoa jurídica" (juristic person). The distinction in the source text is between "sociedades civis and fundações" on the one hand and "sociedades comerciais" on the other. OK, Sorry, but there really is no need to shout.
1 hr
|
|
I never said pessoa jurídica = natural person! (Sorry, that wasn't a shout. I am doing a translation in all caps right now).
|
12 hrs
legal entities, whether civil or commercial
Declined
A citation to illustrate the terms in Portuguese:
As pessoas físicas equiparam-se à pessoa jurídica, por força da legislação, quando: em nome individual, explorem, habitual e profissionalmente, qualquer atividade econômica de natureza civil ou comercial, com o fim especulativo de lucro, mediante venda a terceiro de bens ou serviços, quer se encontrem regularmente inscritas ou não junto ao órgão do Registro de Comércio ou Registro Civil...
http://www.receita.fazenda.gov.br/PessoaJuridica/.../pr78
And a citation to illustrate the terms in English (despite the example from south of the border):
The civil companies and associations are governed by the different Civil Codes of Mexico. The commercial entities are governed by the Federal Law...
http://www.mexicolaw.com/LawInfo04.htm
As pessoas físicas equiparam-se à pessoa jurídica, por força da legislação, quando: em nome individual, explorem, habitual e profissionalmente, qualquer atividade econômica de natureza civil ou comercial, com o fim especulativo de lucro, mediante venda a terceiro de bens ou serviços, quer se encontrem regularmente inscritas ou não junto ao órgão do Registro de Comércio ou Registro Civil...
http://www.receita.fazenda.gov.br/PessoaJuridica/.../pr78
And a citation to illustrate the terms in English (despite the example from south of the border):
The civil companies and associations are governed by the different Civil Codes of Mexico. The commercial entities are governed by the Federal Law...
http://www.mexicolaw.com/LawInfo04.htm
8 hrs
private consumers or traders
Declined
pessoas jurídicas, civis ou mercantis: bodies corporate (inc. non UK-partnerships), persons not acting and ones acting in the course of business.
Civil in Roman law terms often means non-business and contrasts with merchants.
pessoas físicas: IMO are natural persons or private individuals.
In EN law, an ordinary - not limited liability - partnership is in tax termsneither a natural nor a legal person, but a motley group of people and/or corporations that are taxed individually.
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Note added at 9 hrs (2012-02-15 23:33:14 GMT)
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Portuguese isn't one of my core-lingos, but - from my knowledge of tax - I think your 'withdrawing' income tax means deducting or withholding tax at source, plus indirect tax is called excise.
The question has been phrased 'pessoas civis ou mercantis'. But I'll take the cue from Mark R.: the civis and mercantis are subcategories of pessoas jurídicas/sociedadescivis: legal persons who can arguably include a sole trader/proprietor and whose business is accounted for separately from the individual.
So I'll stick to my default answer of 'legal persons, acting privately or in the course of trade.' cf. in FR a société civile is a partnership, just to confuse matters, or a *private* non-commercial company.
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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2012-02-16 22:11:13 GMT)
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I'd suggest reversing the order: trading & (civil=) non-trading. In FR, as an analogy, an SCI is a Société civile immobilière = a real estate investment co.
Civil in Roman law terms often means non-business and contrasts with merchants.
pessoas físicas: IMO are natural persons or private individuals.
In EN law, an ordinary - not limited liability - partnership is in tax termsneither a natural nor a legal person, but a motley group of people and/or corporations that are taxed individually.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2012-02-15 23:33:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Portuguese isn't one of my core-lingos, but - from my knowledge of tax - I think your 'withdrawing' income tax means deducting or withholding tax at source, plus indirect tax is called excise.
The question has been phrased 'pessoas civis ou mercantis'. But I'll take the cue from Mark R.: the civis and mercantis are subcategories of pessoas jurídicas/sociedadescivis: legal persons who can arguably include a sole trader/proprietor and whose business is accounted for separately from the individual.
So I'll stick to my default answer of 'legal persons, acting privately or in the course of trade.' cf. in FR a société civile is a partnership, just to confuse matters, or a *private* non-commercial company.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2012-02-16 22:11:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I'd suggest reversing the order: trading & (civil=) non-trading. In FR, as an analogy, an SCI is a Société civile immobilière = a real estate investment co.
Note from asker:
| Hmm... "Consumers" don't seem to fit in here, b/c this passage is about withdrawing income tax, not charging indirect taxes on CUNSUMPTION (such as VAT or sales tax)... As to "civis ou mercantis": are these subcategories of "pessoas juri'dicas" or are these three different categories: (1) juri'dicas, (2) civis, and (3) mercantis? |
| I think I'm getting the point now... not-for-profit vs. for-profit AND partnership vs. LLC/Ltd./Inc./GmbH... PS. "WithHOLDING," of course! That was a typo. My piece is about DIRECT taxes only. Excise is ONE of a series of INDIRECT taxes, but that's irrelevant now. |
Discussion
“legal entity -- any individual, partnership, proprietorship, corporation, association or other organization that has, in the eyes of the law, the capacity to make a contract or an agreement and the abilities to assume an obligation and to pay off its debts.”
http://www.teachmefinance.com/Financial_Terms/legal_entity.h...
“Legal Entity: An individual or organization which is legally permitted to enter into a contract, and be sued if it fails to meet its contractual obligations.”
http://www.investorwords.com/2759/legal_entity.html
Going off of this, wouldn’t ‘pessoas jurídicas, civis ou mercantis’ be translated as ‘legal entities, individuals or organizations’?
individuals (or civilians) = pessoas civis
taxpaying individuals (or registered individuals) = pessoas físicas
legal entities = pessoas jurídicas
businesses = pessoas mercantis