Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
esprit d\'escalier
English translation:
afterwit
Added to glossary by
Sian Cooper
Jul 2, 2012 08:00
11 yrs ago
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French term
esprit d'escalier
French to English
Other
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Phrases/Sayings
I really don't have a context here, unless I tell you the story which taught me the phrase. I was at a very, very French New Year's Eve party, when I was about 15. It was an adult party, there were no other adolescents or children; I knew most people there, apart from one young woman, about 21, who was particularly, how to say, pushy, wearing a see-through blouse and no bra, and generally being very French sulky vamp I-want-all-the-men. This did not bother me at all (I wasn't interested in all those crinklies!!), but I obviously bothered her.
Anyway, next day at communal breakfast for those of us who had stayed over (this was in a very nice large chateau-domaine, where they did a lot of entertaining and had loads of rooms), I was up one end of the table, she was down the other, and she called down the table, 'Ho, la jeune, passe-moi le sel!' - this in a deliberately inflammatory tone, which was a continuation of her covert unpleasantness to me from the previous evening. The very nice lady next to me grabbed my hand to calm me - I passed the other woman the salt, and I defended myself and my youth; apparently very ably.
However, later I thought, damn, the perfect response was simply to pass the salt with a divine smile, saying 'Tiens, ma vieille.'
This, I was told, is esprit d'escalier. 'Afterthought' just is not good enough, and I would love to find a decent English phrase to reflect it.
A vous, les aminches!
Anyway, next day at communal breakfast for those of us who had stayed over (this was in a very nice large chateau-domaine, where they did a lot of entertaining and had loads of rooms), I was up one end of the table, she was down the other, and she called down the table, 'Ho, la jeune, passe-moi le sel!' - this in a deliberately inflammatory tone, which was a continuation of her covert unpleasantness to me from the previous evening. The very nice lady next to me grabbed my hand to calm me - I passed the other woman the salt, and I defended myself and my youth; apparently very ably.
However, later I thought, damn, the perfect response was simply to pass the salt with a divine smile, saying 'Tiens, ma vieille.'
This, I was told, is esprit d'escalier. 'Afterthought' just is not good enough, and I would love to find a decent English phrase to reflect it.
A vous, les aminches!
Proposed translations
(English)
References
Background info | Emma Paulay |
Proposed translations
+2
3 hrs
Selected
afterwit
See the wiktionary link, third definition: A good comeback one thinks of after leaving a social gathering.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Emma Paulay
: Yes, this looks to be in use.
38 mins
|
agree |
Wolf Draeger
20 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I just love this one! Thank you all for your varied input; exwit and postwit are great too; of course, many will continue to use the original French, but if I were American I may very well use elevator wit, too."
19 mins
French term (edited):
esprit d\'escalier
staircase wit
according to wikipedia in english.
I don't think there is an exact equivalent in English.
I don't think there is an exact equivalent in English.
Example sentence:
L\'esprit de l\'escalier or L\'esprit d\'escalier (literally, staircase wit) is a French term used in English
21 mins
belated wit
Afraid this is a little lame, but I don't think English has a phrase that covers this so neatly, and is the poorer for this being so.
I think the phrase was coined by Diderot. Maybe we should invent one of our own.
I think the phrase was coined by Diderot. Maybe we should invent one of our own.
22 mins
hindsight is a fine thing
Perhaps?
+2
26 mins
esprit d'escalier, stair(case) wit, elevator wit
I don't think we really have single term for this in English. I've seen the above terms in various books and magazine articles, although I can't remember which. For what it's worth, Chuck Palahniuk uses "esprit d'escalier" in his 2005 novel "Haunted".
Example sentence:
People in France have a phrase: "Spirit of the Stairway." In French: esprit d'Escalier. It means that moment when you find the answer but it's too late.
Reference:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Haunted_%28novel%29
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=esprit%20d%27escalier
Peer comment(s):
agree |
emiledgar
: Yes, elevator wit. As for the example "Spirit of the Stairway." Esprit in this case is really "wit" not "spirit". "Spirit of the Stairway" sounds like the stairs are haunted; there's a ghost problem...
1 hr
|
agree |
philgoddard
: It's too elegant to translate.
6 hrs
|
37 mins
in retrospect
A synonym of hindsight, both sound pretty good to me...
54 mins
delayed repartee
53 mins
slow witted comeback
The wikipedia entry suggests that there isn't really an English equivalent so you'd have to invent one. Something like "a slow witted comeback", or "a slow witted retort" - as a play on "quick witted", might work.
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Note added at 58 mins (2012-07-02 08:58:45 GMT)
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On second thoughts, late-witted would be better as slow-witted suggests a lack of intelligence.
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Note added at 58 mins (2012-07-02 08:58:45 GMT)
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On second thoughts, late-witted would be better as slow-witted suggests a lack of intelligence.
1 hr
inability to think of witty comebacks
http://french.about.com/od/vocabulary/a/avoir-l-esprit-de-l-...
http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Funny
If you wait too long, even very funny comments will lose their impact. For example, if someone says something to you and you think of a witty comeback two hours later, you're probably better off just keeping it to yourself. It won't be funny anymore, and you'll look slow, and possibly daft.
http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Funny
If you wait too long, even very funny comments will lose their impact. For example, if someone says something to you and you think of a witty comeback two hours later, you're probably better off just keeping it to yourself. It won't be funny anymore, and you'll look slow, and possibly daft.
9 hrs
conceiving a clever reply long after the event
Another circumlocution - a pale attempt at reflecting Diderot's fine phrase.
1 day 1 hr
exwit (exit wit) OR postwit
Mirrors the FR notion of only thinking of the perfect retort on your way out or after the fact.
Sorry for entering two options together; didn't want to post two separate answers.
Note that these are variations on the established term "afterwit" (see Ide's entry).
Sorry for entering two options together; didn't want to post two separate answers.
Note that these are variations on the established term "afterwit" (see Ide's entry).
Reference comments
15 mins
Reference:
Background info
Here's the history behind the French phrase.
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Note added at 55 mins (2012-07-02 08:56:07 GMT)
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http://www.montana.edu/mountainsandminds/article.php?article...
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Note added at 55 mins (2012-07-02 08:56:07 GMT)
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http://www.montana.edu/mountainsandminds/article.php?article...
Note from asker:
Thankyou, Emma - The Americans, I see, have sensibly created their own version of it, and I do like 'elevator wit' - but not current in the UK, since we say lift and 'lift wit' doesn't work - maybe 'escalator wit' should be the new version :D |
Discussion
Still, I don't feel toooo guilty, there are often multiple conversations about a same topic, and of course one of the good things about it is that, since new people come along, they can bring up new ideas; which is very much the case in this instance:
the glossary does not answer my need. The final vote was to use the original, which is of course a perfectly valid response, but I am still seeking the perfect English version; and there are only 2 other answers, 'staircase wit' (discussed here and not satisfying to me) and 'which can leave pensive', which may have been OK in the context.
So, it is definitely, in my opinion, worth the new discussion; because I'm still a fan of afterwit!
I have of course encountered staircase wit (and actually, elevator wit) before, but have not been satisfied with it, because it is a literal translation but does not necessarily work for the English mind; especially the modern English mind. Of course, if it were 'invented' now, it would not work for the modern French mind that well, either - but since it is a phrase that remains current parlance in French, it doesn't need to be modern, it is understood and accepted in itself.
So far I am most enjoying 'afterwit', which I have never heard before but which obviously historically existed - and I wonder if indeed it was a then-invention precisely to fill this gap! I think it needs to be brought back into the language.
'hindsight is a fine thing' is often used to fill the gap (or 'a wonderful thing'); but I am not quite happy with it, so the search goes on :)
Thanks all for your enthusiastic input!