Apr 22, 2014 15:07
10 yrs ago
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Turkish term

altı üstü

Non-PRO May offend Turkish to English Other Idioms / Maxims / Sayings Idiom
Thıs phrase is found in a highly sexist piece I found online, about, I think what the writer wants a woman to be. Clearly he doesn't like the condition of pregnancy.
Here is an extract from this piece:- "
"Tek başını gece dışarı çıksan laf atacak kimse yok. Şort giysen bakacak insan yok.. Altı üstü bir adam olacaksın. Onu da olamıyorsan geber daha iyi."
I can't find this phrase anywhere. I hazard the guess that the sentence in which it occurs means something like:- 'All she'll get is a bloke. If she doesn't have him, dying is better...'

Discussion

Hellinas (asker) Apr 23, 2014:
Mehmet's note actually applies to the UK as well. You only have to go in a bar or listen to workmen, indeed, go to imany areas of business & workplaces to hear such attitudes expressed both by men and women. The advertising industry thrives on such stereotypes in spite of government legislation to attack gender stereotypes. But there is in Britain also a strong Muslim patriarchal culture where different attitudes can often but not always
prevail.
Mehmet Ali Bahıt Apr 23, 2014:
On the other hand, saying that it is not sexist at all is also not true. My mistake... It is supposed to be tongue-in-cheek but it does not quite manage it.
There are bits in there about bra clasps giving you trouble, plucking your eyebrows and other clichés listed as woes of being a woman and that is precisely what is being criticized about this piece in the pentlr article.

After all, we are talking about a culture where being a decent person is described with the words "being a man". That in itself says a lot...
Mehmet Ali Bahıt Apr 23, 2014:
More like "bottom and top", (amounting to "all"). The suggestions by the other colleagues are also correct translations of the idiom. The sub-text in "altı üstü" is that whatever it is used to describe is rather simple, that there is no need to make a fuss about it.
Hellinas (asker) Apr 23, 2014:
Thanks so much, Mehmet. I thought it was sexist because of an article I read at pentir.com, where the author complains that this article shows a woman accepting the gender stereotype. Your explanation together with Tuncay's observation has made the meaning of the whole passage crystal clear. It is strange that I cannot find any reference to altı üstü in any dictionary I have. What does it mean literally? 'Down up'?

Proposed translations

18 hrs
Selected

All you have to do...

This is a rather loose translation and a little bit of backround information is necessary:
I know the complete text and this piece is not sexist at all. Actually it criticizes the macho culture. It lists all the big and small problems women face in everyday life, especially in our culture, and goes on to say that as a man, you do not have to deal with those. All you have to do is... Well, now we came to the bit I wanted to discuss:
There is a pun of sorts here. The literal translation for "adam olmak" is "to be a man" but the connotation is different. In English, the phrase "be a man" is about stepping up and acting like a man (or being a manly man, depending on the context). However, in Turkish, that would be "erkek olmak, erkek gibi davranmak". If you say "adam ol" to a person, it would mean "behave!" or "act properly" or "be a proper/decent person" (not to be confused with "prim and proper", obviously).

I am not attempting to adapt the pun here and this translation is really loose, but I am trying to convey the idea. Think of it more as an explanation rather than an actual translation:

All you have to do is be a man (or rather, a decent person). If you cannot even manage that, just go and die.
Note from asker:
Thanks, Mehmet, so much! Your extensive explanation together with Tuncay's observation has made the meaning of the whole passage crystal clear. I thought it was sexist because of an article at pentir.com, which claims that this image of women reinforces the gender stereotype. Does altı üstü mean 'down up' literally? I cannot find this idiom in any dictionary I have, tureng included.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to all as usual for their contributions Mehmet's was the fullest answer."
23 mins

only/just

"altı üstü" is not about a female but about a male here.
(Possibly) She is saying that you are not a female who has a problem like getting harrasment when going out alone at night or wearing shorts...you just need to be a man, that is all...
I hope this helps
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1 hr

all in all

All in all, you will be a man. If you can not be, you'd better die.
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