Glossary entry

Chinese term or phrase:

得為同業間之對外保證。

English translation:

shall offer guarantee to other corporations

Added to glossary by David Lin
Apr 30, 2014 15:30
10 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Chinese term

得為同業間之對外保證。

Chinese to English Other Law (general)
Hi sir/madam,

Can you please tell me how to translate 得為同業間之對外保證 to English? Thanks in advance!

Celia

Detail:

前項有關之進出口貿易業務,並就本項業務得為同業間之對外保證。
Proposed translations (English)
4 +4 shall offer guarantee to other corporations
Change log

May 14, 2014 05:32: David Lin Created KOG entry

Discussion

QHE May 3, 2014:
At this point I’m sure Celia is capable to convey the text, unless it’s an act of Much Ado.
Phil Hand May 3, 2014:
"Shall" could work in context Yes, I certainly agree that shall could be used, depending on the language used throughout the rest of the document. But I think it's worth noting that this sentence does appear to be permissive. The link you gave, David, is to a company charter, which defines the types of business that a company may undertake. Unless there is some point of law which says that companies engaged in import/export *must* provide guarantees (and I don't think there is), then the meaning must be permissive. The translator might well find it useful to mark it explicitly as permissive, and "shall" (depending on context) could be ambiguous or even misleading.
David Lin May 2, 2014:
Use of "shall" in law As used in statutes and similar instruments, this word is generally imperative or mandatory; but it may be construed as merely permissive or directory, (as equivalent to “may,”) to carry out the legislative intention and In cases where no right or benefit to any one depends on its being taken in the imperative sense, and where no public or private right is impaired by its interpretation in the other sense. Also, as against the government, “shall” is to be construed as “may,” unless a contrary intention is manifest. See Wheeler v. Chicago, 24 111. 105, 76 Am. Dec. 736; People v. Chicago Sanitary Dist., 184 111. 597, 56 N. E. 9.”.:;: Madison v. Daley (C. C.) 58 Fed. 753; Cairo & F. R. Co. v. Ilecht, 95 U. S. 170, 24 L. Ed. 423. SHAM PLEA. See PLEA. SHARE 1082 SHERIFF

-- From Law Dictionary: What is SHALL? definition of SHALL (Black's Law Dictionary)
celiacheung85 (asker) May 2, 2014:
Sorry for the late reply. I am very thankful that so many people in proz are willing to response to this question.
Oceanwide May 2, 2014:
Please refer to the following link: Please see http://34107585.boss.com.tw
If the asker is translating the same or similar data as referred to in the above link, then it's clear the 得 means "may", i.e., the company may choose to do that, it's entitled to do that, not obligated, that's just one item as authorized by its bylaw or as permitted by the relevant authorities.
Oceanwide May 2, 2014:
得 pronounced differently For "shall", it is pronounced as "dei", and used more in everyday expressions.
For "may", it is pronounced as "de", and used more in legal context.
Many academic books nowadays even mix it up often, but the specific context can make it clear in almost every case.
QHE May 2, 2014:
Hi Phil,

It doesn't seem that the act is optional, according to the original sentence per se.
Phil Hand May 2, 2014:
Hi, QHE - why a duty? This might be a point of law I don't know about. In import/export business, is it necessary to provide guarantees to other corporations?
Sharon Toh, MITI MCIL May 1, 2014:
I think 之 here is akin to 的.
Phil Hand May 1, 2014:
Is 之 a verb here? Taiwanese legal language is hard! Having read it ten times, I think I now understand it, but is 之 acting as the verb in this clause?

Proposed translations

+4
2 hrs
Selected

shall offer guarantee to other corporations

shall offer guarantee to other corporations with regard to the aforementioned business.

http://www.techmosa.com/download/公司章程99.6.18.pdf
Peer comment(s):

agree Phil Hand : Possibly "may" rather than "shall" - the 得 here is permissive, not prescriptive
8 hrs
Thanks. 得為 has the meaning of “duty” here, hence it must not be 'may' or you would twist the original meaning.
agree Sharon Toh, MITI MCIL : Agree with Phil on 得. I usually translate that to 'may'.
9 hrs
thanks。If it's 得以(e.g. 成為會員),then depending on context you could translate it as ‘may'. It's possible to use 'may' in some context but not here.
agree QHE : Agree with David. The sentence “並就本項業務得為同業間之對外保證” is an imperative form; in other words, “shall” means has a duty to.
23 hrs
Thanks, Q.
agree Oceanwide : Agree with Phil and Sharon, it's evident some business scope is being talked about in the traditional Chinese version, meaning the company may provide letters of guarantee for other related companies involved in the same business operations.
1 day 21 hrs
Thanks. I asked a native Taiwan Mandarin-speaking friend and confirmed that 得為 has a stronger meaning of duty than ‘may' or 'optional' in this context.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
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