Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
soberbia
English translation:
(tyranny) > the tyrant / tyrants
Added to glossary by
Charles Davis
Jul 6, 2014 15:05
9 yrs ago
Spanish term
United Kingdom
Native in: English (Variant: US) 
, Spanish
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish
soberbia
Spanish to English
Social Sciences
History
Historia de México
Intento traducir lo siguiente al inglés, pero no sé cómo traducir lo de "soberbia". Se trata de un documento publicado por el EZLN.
"Hace 184 años un puñado de indígenas y algunos mestizos se alzaron en armas contra la Corona española para exigir la libertad que la soberbia oprimía con la esclavitud, para exigir la democracia que la soberbia ahogaba con la dictadura, para exigir la justicia que la soberbia encadenaba con la explotación."
Creo que "pride" o "arrogance" no encaja aquí; ¿hay otra sugerencia que me puedan dar?
Gracias de antemano.
"Hace 184 años un puñado de indígenas y algunos mestizos se alzaron en armas contra la Corona española para exigir la libertad que la soberbia oprimía con la esclavitud, para exigir la democracia que la soberbia ahogaba con la dictadura, para exigir la justicia que la soberbia encadenaba con la explotación."
Creo que "pride" o "arrogance" no encaja aquí; ¿hay otra sugerencia que me puedan dar?
Gracias de antemano.
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Jul 20, 2014 06:07: Charles Davis Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+6
3 hrs
Selected
(tyranny) > the tyrant / tyrants
I admit that "soberbia" doesn't literally mean "tyranny", but they are closely related contexts ("tirano" and "soberbio" are commonly found together, and one of the classical archetypes of the tyrant is Tarquino el Soberbio, Tarquin the Proud, the last king of Rome). I think that in this context "tyranny" would fit better than any more literal translation, any of the synonyms of pride or arrogance.
But I would go further. I think that although in Spanish these abstractions work OK (libertad/soberbia/esclavitud, etc.), in English they're really too much. In each of these phrases, I think it would work much better to use one concrete noun and two abstractions rather then three abstractions. In other words, rather than "to demand the freedom that tyranny was oppressing with slavery", it would sound better to say "to demand the freedom that the tyrant was oppressing with slavery", and so on.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2014-07-06 19:04:34 GMT)
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Sorry: in line 1 of the above it should read "closely related concepts".
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Note added at 15 hrs (2014-07-07 06:45:19 GMT)
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It is personalised: "soberbia" meaning the people (the Spanish rulers) characterised by this moral quality. "Soberbia" (superbia in Latin) is, after all, one of the seven deadly sins, and in this sense it is known specifically as pride in English. I am still sure that "pride" alone doesn't work here, but if this concept is being echoed, we might possibly say "the proud tyrants". However, on balance I think I probably wouldn't do this, as it willl sound pretty clumsy. I think "tyrants" alone best expresses the perspective of these people towards their Spanish rulers.
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Note added at 18 hrs (2014-07-07 09:40:47 GMT)
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I do take the point about the Zapatistas fighting imperialism, but this quotation doesn't refer to them; the "soberbia" in question is that of the Spanish crown 184 years ago, at the time of the Mexican revolution, when power was conceived more in terms of the personal characteristics of rulers.
But I would go further. I think that although in Spanish these abstractions work OK (libertad/soberbia/esclavitud, etc.), in English they're really too much. In each of these phrases, I think it would work much better to use one concrete noun and two abstractions rather then three abstractions. In other words, rather than "to demand the freedom that tyranny was oppressing with slavery", it would sound better to say "to demand the freedom that the tyrant was oppressing with slavery", and so on.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2014-07-06 19:04:34 GMT)
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Sorry: in line 1 of the above it should read "closely related concepts".
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Note added at 15 hrs (2014-07-07 06:45:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It is personalised: "soberbia" meaning the people (the Spanish rulers) characterised by this moral quality. "Soberbia" (superbia in Latin) is, after all, one of the seven deadly sins, and in this sense it is known specifically as pride in English. I am still sure that "pride" alone doesn't work here, but if this concept is being echoed, we might possibly say "the proud tyrants". However, on balance I think I probably wouldn't do this, as it willl sound pretty clumsy. I think "tyrants" alone best expresses the perspective of these people towards their Spanish rulers.
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Note added at 18 hrs (2014-07-07 09:40:47 GMT)
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I do take the point about the Zapatistas fighting imperialism, but this quotation doesn't refer to them; the "soberbia" in question is that of the Spanish crown 184 years ago, at the time of the Mexican revolution, when power was conceived more in terms of the personal characteristics of rulers.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Phoenix III
: I rack my brain trying to avoid tyranny looking for something different but nope...
1 hr
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LOL! I kept coming back to it too... Thanks, Phoenix :)
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| agree |
JaneTranslates
: Opposite process to Phoenix III, same conclusion: I wasted time trying to think of an answer, then saw this one and said, "Oh. Yes, of course." Agree on use of concrete noun, but I think I'd use the plural form here--"that the tyrants were oppressing."
7 hrs
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Many thanks, Jane :) I was unsure whether it should be singular or plural, but I think you're probably right.
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| agree |
Hans Geluk
: Yes! Sophocles would have agreed: hubris grows from tyranny! http://goo.gl/BtLI1E
14 hrs
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Thanks very much, Hans! That's exactly the idea I had in mind :)
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| agree |
Chris Neill
: yep, difficult to argue against that..
19 hrs
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Many thanks, Chris :)
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| agree |
neilmac
19 hrs
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Thanks very much, Neil :)
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| agree |
Hugo Rincón
2 days 20 hrs
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Thank, Hugo :)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
20 mins
Paul Brown
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Works in field
United Kingdom
ES/PT > Native English Translations
Native in: English 
Works in: Portuguese to English, Spanish to English
haughtiness
My suggestion would be for "haughtiness"
http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=sobe... - No. 3 - haughtiness
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/haughti...
'haughtiness' - the appearance or quality of being arrogantly superior and disdainful.
http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=sobe... - No. 3 - haughtiness
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/haughti...
'haughtiness' - the appearance or quality of being arrogantly superior and disdainful.
1 hr
air of supremacy/disdain/pretentiousness
Some suggestions found in the thesaurus, as the word appears more than once in the text. Then, you'll have other synonyms to avoid repetition.
3 hrs
Hans Geluk
Spain
Spain
Works in field
Spain
Business/HR career, MA Translation(Dist)
Native in: Dutch
Works in: Spanish to Dutch, Catalan to Dutch, English to Dutch, and 2 more.
megalomania
La soberbia is a proud arrogance, thinking that you are superior. I think that megalomania suits here. Don't worry about repeating it, repetition is a style figure that works as a great superlative in such a context.
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Note added at 18 hrs (2014-07-07 09:17:08 GMT)
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I love the solution 'tyrants', but if you still prefer to keep to a personified concept of pride, 'hubris' would fit the bill too
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Note added at 18 hrs (2014-07-07 09:17:08 GMT)
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I love the solution 'tyrants', but if you still prefer to keep to a personified concept of pride, 'hubris' would fit the bill too
22 hrs
Gad Kohenov
Israel
Israel
Specializes in field
Israel
30 years of experience+satisfied clients
Native in: French , Hebrew
Works in: English to Hebrew, Hebrew to English, French to Hebrew, and 8 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
36
The sovereign
Could be the same as soberano.
+2
2 hrs
Edward Tully
Native in English
Because your words matter
Native in: English (Variants: US, UK)
Works in: Spanish to English
Related KudoZ points
:
60
imperialism
My take, given the context...
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Note added at 6 hrs (2014-07-06 21:16:22 GMT)
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I think that "imperialism" works best here - these people were not fighting rulers (tyrants) but a system.
The Zapatista rebellion not only raised many questions about the consequences of globalization and free trade; it also questioned the long-standing ideas created by the Spanish colonial system. Postcolonialism is the antithesis of imperialism because it attempts to explain how the prejudices and restrictions created by colonialism are being overcome.[22] This is especially obvious in countries that have large social and economic inequalities, where colonial ideas are deeply entrenched in the minds of the colonials' descendents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Libe...
"Colonialism" would also be acceptable in this context.
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Note added at 2 days3 hrs (2014-07-08 18:21:45 GMT)
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I think the key point here is "la Corona española"; this was not just a rebellion against individual rulers, but against a repressive regime, and certainly the Zapatistas would wish to reflect this in their literature.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2014-07-06 21:16:22 GMT)
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I think that "imperialism" works best here - these people were not fighting rulers (tyrants) but a system.
The Zapatista rebellion not only raised many questions about the consequences of globalization and free trade; it also questioned the long-standing ideas created by the Spanish colonial system. Postcolonialism is the antithesis of imperialism because it attempts to explain how the prejudices and restrictions created by colonialism are being overcome.[22] This is especially obvious in countries that have large social and economic inequalities, where colonial ideas are deeply entrenched in the minds of the colonials' descendents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Libe...
"Colonialism" would also be acceptable in this context.
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Note added at 2 days3 hrs (2014-07-08 18:21:45 GMT)
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I think the key point here is "la Corona española"; this was not just a rebellion against individual rulers, but against a repressive regime, and certainly the Zapatistas would wish to reflect this in their literature.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
JaneTranslates
: You present a good argument. I still prefer concretizing and personalizing it to "the tyrants," as Charles suggests, but if the asker is reluctant to do so, this would be a workable option.
13 hrs
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Many thanks! ;-)
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| agree |
jude dabo
: Fits
2 days 2 mins
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Many thanks! ;-)
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Discussion