Feb 1, 2015 02:42
9 yrs ago
German term
Staatliche Landeszentrale
German to English
Social Sciences
History
I'm looking for an English term to use for the specific agency referred to in this text:
http://www.benno-wagner.net/frankenstein.html
"Als die 1915 in Prag eingerichtete Staatliche Landeszentrale für das Königreich Böhmen zur Fürsorge für heimkehrende Krieger..."
http://www.benno-wagner.net/frankenstein.html
"Als die 1915 in Prag eingerichtete Staatliche Landeszentrale für das Königreich Böhmen zur Fürsorge für heimkehrende Krieger..."
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +1 | Royal Bohemian State Office for the Welfare of Returning Ex-Servicemen | Lancashireman |
3 +2 | Public Crownland Agency (for Returning Veterans) | Michael Martin, MA |
References
DEFINITION OF CROWNLAND | writeaway |
Change log
Aug 18, 2017 14:18: Helen Shiner changed "Field" from "Art/Literary" to "Social Sciences"
Proposed translations
+1
19 hrs
German term (edited):
Staatliche Landeszentrale für das Königreich Böhmen zur Fürsorge für heimkehrende Krieger
Selected
Royal Bohemian State Office for the Welfare of Returning Ex-Servicemen
I think this Google Books link may even trump Michael's:
"In October 1918, Kafka was awarded a first-class decoration by the Royal Bohemian State Office for the Welfare of Returning Ex-Servicemen..."
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DRgN7ZubzpoC&pg=PA12&lpg...
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Note added at 20 hrs (2015-02-01 22:46:38 GMT)
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PS: Can we be assured that you will return to grade this one yourself, Kurt? The first answer in has already attracted two votes, which will be enough to persuade the robot in two weeks' time.
"In October 1918, Kafka was awarded a first-class decoration by the Royal Bohemian State Office for the Welfare of Returning Ex-Servicemen..."
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DRgN7ZubzpoC&pg=PA12&lpg...
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Note added at 20 hrs (2015-02-01 22:46:38 GMT)
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PS: Can we be assured that you will return to grade this one yourself, Kurt? The first answer in has already attracted two votes, which will be enough to persuade the robot in two weeks' time.
Note from asker:
Thanks Andrew, that does sound more idiomatic / intuitively comprehensible to me. And yes, I'll grade the question myself! |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Paul Skidmore
11 hrs
|
neutral |
Michael Martin, MA
: Neither "Royal" nor "State Office" makes this any more idiomatic, let alone historically accurate, than we've seen..
12 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks for tracking down this reference! I appreciate the research by all commenters, but this one sounds the best to me."
+2
1 hr
Public Crownland Agency (for Returning Veterans)
i think, this could be what we're looking for..
https://books.google.com/books?id=_Vzl9bVOtrcC&pg=PA351&dq="...
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Note added at 12 hrs (2015-02-01 15:28:05 GMT)
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Response to comments:
By the same yardstick, I'm not even sure that "Staatliche Landeszentrale" is historically accurate given that the Austrian-Hungarian Empire was still around. In fact, I have a feeling that the English term used by my source may have been around longer than "Staatliche Landeszentrale" It would have been easier for me to come up with my own version but in case of historical entities, it may be best to avoid stirring up confusion by adding yet another translation to the same concept. Unless of course, there's widespread consent that a preceding translation is so flawed that it has to be replaced.
https://books.google.com/books?id=_Vzl9bVOtrcC&pg=PA351&dq="...
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Note added at 12 hrs (2015-02-01 15:28:05 GMT)
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Response to comments:
By the same yardstick, I'm not even sure that "Staatliche Landeszentrale" is historically accurate given that the Austrian-Hungarian Empire was still around. In fact, I have a feeling that the English term used by my source may have been around longer than "Staatliche Landeszentrale" It would have been easier for me to come up with my own version but in case of historical entities, it may be best to avoid stirring up confusion by adding yet another translation to the same concept. Unless of course, there's widespread consent that a preceding translation is so flawed that it has to be replaced.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Elisabeth Kissel
: excellent reference
1 hr
|
agree |
BrigitteHilgner
3 hrs
|
neutral |
philgoddard
: Crownland is such an obscure word I'm not convinced it exists. I think you need to find a word that won't send people scurrying for the dictionary :-)
4 hrs
|
neutral |
writeaway
: not so sure that public is historically correct in the context. In 1915, the Austro-Hungarian Empire was still in existence.
7 hrs
|
neutral |
Lancashireman
: It's not public, crownland is like something from Game of Thrones, and agency is wrong for the period. But apart from those three minor quibbles, this should work OK.
20 hrs
|
And all those supposed flaws can be easily fixed by substituting "State Office" for "Public Agency". Pull the other one..
|
Reference comments
8 hrs
Reference:
DEFINITION OF CROWNLAND
Crown land
Crown land is an area belonging to the monarch, the equivalent of an entailed estate that passed with the monarchy and could not be alienated from it. Today, in countries where the British monarchy is the head of state, the term is used to referred to public land. In Britain, the hereditary revenues of Crown lands provided income for the monarch until the start of the reign of George III when the Crown Estate was surrendered to the Parliament of Great Britain in return for a fixed civil list payment – the monarch retains the income from the Duchy of Lancaster. In the Austro-Hungarian Empire and its predecessor the Austrian Empire Crown lands were alternative administrative units to duchies, as in the Kingdom of Poland and its successor, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
http://lexbook.net/en/crownland
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Note added at 11 hrs (2015-02-01 14:34:10 GMT)
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Austria
From the late 18th century onwards, the territories acquired by the Austrian Habsburg Monarchy were called crown lands (German: Kronländer). Initially ruled in personal union by the House of Habsburg-Lorraine, they played a vital role as constituent lands of the Habsburg nation-building and ultimatively were re-organised as administrative divisions of the centralised Austrian Empire established in 1804.
By the 1861 February Patent, proclaimed by Emperor Franz Joseph I, the Austrian crown lands received a certain autonomy. The traditional Landstände (estates) assemblies were elevated to Landtage legislatures, partly elected according to the principle of census suffrage.
After the Austro-Hungarian Compromise of 1867, the Kingdom of Hungary (with the Principality of Transylvania), the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia and Fiume became constituent parts of the Lands of the Crown of Saint Stephen (Transleithania); ruled in real union with the remaining Austrian crown lands (officially: "The Kingdoms and Lands represented in the Imperial Council") of Cisleithania until the disintegration of the dual monarchy in 1918.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_land
Crown land is an area belonging to the monarch, the equivalent of an entailed estate that passed with the monarchy and could not be alienated from it. Today, in countries where the British monarchy is the head of state, the term is used to referred to public land. In Britain, the hereditary revenues of Crown lands provided income for the monarch until the start of the reign of George III when the Crown Estate was surrendered to the Parliament of Great Britain in return for a fixed civil list payment – the monarch retains the income from the Duchy of Lancaster. In the Austro-Hungarian Empire and its predecessor the Austrian Empire Crown lands were alternative administrative units to duchies, as in the Kingdom of Poland and its successor, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
http://lexbook.net/en/crownland
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Note added at 11 hrs (2015-02-01 14:34:10 GMT)
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Austria
From the late 18th century onwards, the territories acquired by the Austrian Habsburg Monarchy were called crown lands (German: Kronländer). Initially ruled in personal union by the House of Habsburg-Lorraine, they played a vital role as constituent lands of the Habsburg nation-building and ultimatively were re-organised as administrative divisions of the centralised Austrian Empire established in 1804.
By the 1861 February Patent, proclaimed by Emperor Franz Joseph I, the Austrian crown lands received a certain autonomy. The traditional Landstände (estates) assemblies were elevated to Landtage legislatures, partly elected according to the principle of census suffrage.
After the Austro-Hungarian Compromise of 1867, the Kingdom of Hungary (with the Principality of Transylvania), the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia and Fiume became constituent parts of the Lands of the Crown of Saint Stephen (Transleithania); ruled in real union with the remaining Austrian crown lands (officially: "The Kingdoms and Lands represented in the Imperial Council") of Cisleithania until the disintegration of the dual monarchy in 1918.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_land
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral |
philgoddard
: This is a strange definition because it confuses crown land with crownland.
3 hrs
|
don't see how that makes the definition/explanation strange. maybe a German influence from Kronländer? Note that Crownland in the answer posted also seems to have the same German influence.
|
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neutral |
Lancashireman
: Why have you bothered researching 'crownland'? It does not occur anywhere in the asker's term.
13 hrs
|
no, it doesn't. but like in the Emperor's New Clothes, everyone seems to think it does....
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Discussion