El alterne

English translation: escort club / hostess club

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:el alterne
English translation:escort club / hostess club
Entered by: Charles Davis

20:27 Mar 2, 2016
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Spanish term or phrase: El alterne
El contexto:

Una sentencia condenatoria por facilitar la prostitución:

"...en distintos clubes de alterne y prostitución"

"...el alterne y la prostitución"

Entiendo el concepto del alterne en España (sala de fiestas etc) pero estoy buscando una buena traducción para el inglés británico...
Richard Vranch
Local time: 02:26
escort club
Explanation:
Clubs de alterne are in effect brothels, but they shouldn't be called that here, because "alterne" is being distinguished from "prostitución" (as Carol rightly says). Prostitution is legal in Spain but pimping is not. "Alterne", however, is, because formally they are not brothels, even though they serve the same purpose. Their legal fig leaf is that in theory "alterne" is not inevitably and by definition for paid sex. It is ostensibly more respectable than that.

Alterne is defined in case law as "la captación de clientes varones, mediante el atractivo sexual al objeto de que consuman bebidas". It's understood that the captación is normally for sex as well as drinking. Nevertheless, it gives alterne clubs a distinctive nature for which we need a distinctive name.

I think that since what happens (as I understand it) is that when a man enters an alterne club he will shortly be joined by an accommodating young woman, drinks will be ordered and they will normally retire to a room in due course, a suitable term would be "escort club". There is something euphemistic about the word "alterne" and it would be good to capture that in the translation. "Gentlemen's clubs" is too euphemistic, to my mind (it makes me think of Pall Mall and Bertie Wooster); "sleaze clubs" is accurate, in a sense, but the wrong register (the very opposite of euphemistic). But "escort" captures the verbal fig leaf of the Spanish term for me.

Here is a website for a club called Perla Negra in Barcelona (don't open it if you're easily offended), which calls itself an "escort club" and even at one point an "escort brothel". It features an "escort bar" as well as rooms rentable by the hour. I would say it is an alterne club:
http://www.perlanegrabcn.com/en/escort-club-facilities/

Alterne places are (or at least were) colloquially known as "puticlubs".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2016-03-03 08:48:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

David's "hostess" is an excellent option. I am a bit torn as to which is better. On the one hand, "escort" is commonly used as a euphemism for a prostitute, and in this context it doesn't necessarily have the usual implications of accompanying someone to social events. Of course it can; "escorts" can be paid companions who are sometimes (tacitly) expected to sleep with the client afterwards. But in the context of "escort club" it just means having a drink with them and then going to bed with them; if you go to an escort club you're not expecting the "escorts" to leave the club with you; your business is conducted on the premises.

"Hostess", on the other hand, is the word for a woman whose job is to dance or drink with customers in a nightclub. It doesn't necessarily imply prostitution, though of course it can and often will.

So I would say that "hostess bar" is more euphemistic and less clearly a brothel than "escort bar". I think you might genuinely visit a "hostess bar" without getting laid or intending to; it's very unlikely you'd visit an "escort bar" for any other purpose. I would say the latter is true of a "club de alterne" as well, and yet if you needed a term for a "hostess club/bar" in Spanish, that's probably what you would call it, and in theory "alterne" doesn't have to be sex. So I believe you could argue this one either way.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2016-03-03 09:12:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Escort bar" seems to be a favoured term in Barcelona. Here's another one. When it says you can indulge in a drink or two "either before or after the meeting with your escort", it means before or after sex, of course.
http://www.lavieenrose.es/en/bar-escorts/

"Amsterdam
Can anyone recommend a good "escort bar"?
Will be visiting soon, and as much as I'd enjoy giving the red light district a try, I know I will be wanting something more intimate.
I've heard there are some bars that also double as escort places?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amsterdam/comments/30svfi/can_anyon...

While "escort clubs" are very thinly disguised brothels, "hostess club" is a good deal less sleazy, largely because it is strongly associated with the Japanese "hostess" phenomenon. These are definitely not brothels at all and there is no expectation of sex on the premises, though there can be on subsequent "paid dates". On the other hand, though someone visiting a "hostess club" in Spain would probably not expect it to be like that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_and_hostess_clubs

So it's a question of how clear you want the prostitution element to be.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2016-03-03 22:21:29 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thank you, Richard. I am going to put "hostess" in the glossary entry as well; I hope that's all right with you. "Hostess" is closer to what alterne is supposed to be (and perhaps once was); "escort" is closer to what it actually is in practice. I think users will find both terms helpful.
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 03:26
Grading comment
Thanks very much and I appreciate the well-explained reasoning.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3hostess club/bar
David Ronder
4 +3escort club
Charles Davis
3 +2brothel
lugoben
3 +1sleaze joint
Carol Gullidge
3gentlemen's club
Darius Saczuk
Summary of reference entries provided
21st century prostitution
neilmac

  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
gentlemen's club


Explanation:
A safe equivalent.

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Note added at 9 mins (2016-03-02 20:36:25 GMT)
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http://themayfairclub.co.uk/

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Note added at 11 mins (2016-03-02 20:38:15 GMT)
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Strip Club London - The Mayfair Club | London Strip Clubs
themayfairclub.co.uk/
This is why no other place can quite compare to the top-class strip club London services that Mayfair Club provide. If you are looking for a gentlemen's club with ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2016-03-02 20:40:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

First strip club in county to open - Banbury Guardian
www.banburyguardian.co.uk/.../first-strip-club-in-cou...
Banbury Guardian
Jun 22, 2006 - THE first lap dancing and striptease club in Oxfordshire is to open in Banbury. ... professional dancers will be recruited from Birmingham and London. ... dancers and customers and although it's termed a gentlemen's club it will ...

Darius Saczuk
United States
Local time: 21:26
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in PolishPolish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 134
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
brothel


Explanation:
Bar de alterne =brothel
http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=alte...

lugoben
Local time: 21:26
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  neilmac
7 mins
  -> Molto gracia, neilmac, saludos

agree  patinba
27 mins
  -> Muchas gracias, patinba, saludos

neutral  philgoddard: This is what it may be in practice, but I think we're looking for a euphemism. Otherwise they'd surely have said "bordel".
2 hrs
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53 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
sleaze joint


Explanation:
somewhere between what I think of as a (traditional) gentlemen's club and a brothel. My problem with "brothel" here is that the source text is differentiating between "alterne" and "prostitución", so we need to find something in the TT that makes a similar distinction

Carol Gullidge
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:26
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 214

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  philgoddard: This is far too colloquial for the context.
1 hr

agree  Nomasvirus: http://nomasvirus.com
683 days
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
hostess club/bar


Explanation:
Definitely one of the terms used for this kind of establishment.

Here's one in Tenerife:

http://www.imagenia.eu/en/hostess-club-in-tenerife-ninfas-cl...

Collins dictionary agrees:

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/spanish-english/...

And as you can see from this story and accompanying picture, it's what the expat press calls 'puticulubs' in Mallorca:

http://www.euroweeklynews.com/3.0.15/news/on-euro-weekly-new...



David Ronder
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:26
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Charles Davis: "Hostess" would also be fine, I think. Escort vs. hostess is more or less 50-50 (in frequency and applicability), I would say. // True, though in an "escort club" the "escorts" are simply prostitutes you have a drink with. This is an excellent option
16 mins
  -> Thanks, Charles. I agree they're both used, but I prefer this one as they are actually hosting rather than escorting (i.e. going out and being seen with) the clients.

agree  philgoddard
5 hrs
  -> Thanks, Phil

agree  neilmac
1 day 3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Neil
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
escort club


Explanation:
Clubs de alterne are in effect brothels, but they shouldn't be called that here, because "alterne" is being distinguished from "prostitución" (as Carol rightly says). Prostitution is legal in Spain but pimping is not. "Alterne", however, is, because formally they are not brothels, even though they serve the same purpose. Their legal fig leaf is that in theory "alterne" is not inevitably and by definition for paid sex. It is ostensibly more respectable than that.

Alterne is defined in case law as "la captación de clientes varones, mediante el atractivo sexual al objeto de que consuman bebidas". It's understood that the captación is normally for sex as well as drinking. Nevertheless, it gives alterne clubs a distinctive nature for which we need a distinctive name.

I think that since what happens (as I understand it) is that when a man enters an alterne club he will shortly be joined by an accommodating young woman, drinks will be ordered and they will normally retire to a room in due course, a suitable term would be "escort club". There is something euphemistic about the word "alterne" and it would be good to capture that in the translation. "Gentlemen's clubs" is too euphemistic, to my mind (it makes me think of Pall Mall and Bertie Wooster); "sleaze clubs" is accurate, in a sense, but the wrong register (the very opposite of euphemistic). But "escort" captures the verbal fig leaf of the Spanish term for me.

Here is a website for a club called Perla Negra in Barcelona (don't open it if you're easily offended), which calls itself an "escort club" and even at one point an "escort brothel". It features an "escort bar" as well as rooms rentable by the hour. I would say it is an alterne club:
http://www.perlanegrabcn.com/en/escort-club-facilities/

Alterne places are (or at least were) colloquially known as "puticlubs".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2016-03-03 08:48:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

David's "hostess" is an excellent option. I am a bit torn as to which is better. On the one hand, "escort" is commonly used as a euphemism for a prostitute, and in this context it doesn't necessarily have the usual implications of accompanying someone to social events. Of course it can; "escorts" can be paid companions who are sometimes (tacitly) expected to sleep with the client afterwards. But in the context of "escort club" it just means having a drink with them and then going to bed with them; if you go to an escort club you're not expecting the "escorts" to leave the club with you; your business is conducted on the premises.

"Hostess", on the other hand, is the word for a woman whose job is to dance or drink with customers in a nightclub. It doesn't necessarily imply prostitution, though of course it can and often will.

So I would say that "hostess bar" is more euphemistic and less clearly a brothel than "escort bar". I think you might genuinely visit a "hostess bar" without getting laid or intending to; it's very unlikely you'd visit an "escort bar" for any other purpose. I would say the latter is true of a "club de alterne" as well, and yet if you needed a term for a "hostess club/bar" in Spanish, that's probably what you would call it, and in theory "alterne" doesn't have to be sex. So I believe you could argue this one either way.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2016-03-03 09:12:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Escort bar" seems to be a favoured term in Barcelona. Here's another one. When it says you can indulge in a drink or two "either before or after the meeting with your escort", it means before or after sex, of course.
http://www.lavieenrose.es/en/bar-escorts/

"Amsterdam
Can anyone recommend a good "escort bar"?
Will be visiting soon, and as much as I'd enjoy giving the red light district a try, I know I will be wanting something more intimate.
I've heard there are some bars that also double as escort places?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amsterdam/comments/30svfi/can_anyon...

While "escort clubs" are very thinly disguised brothels, "hostess club" is a good deal less sleazy, largely because it is strongly associated with the Japanese "hostess" phenomenon. These are definitely not brothels at all and there is no expectation of sex on the premises, though there can be on subsequent "paid dates". On the other hand, though someone visiting a "hostess club" in Spain would probably not expect it to be like that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_and_hostess_clubs

So it's a question of how clear you want the prostitution element to be.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2016-03-03 22:21:29 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thank you, Richard. I am going to put "hostess" in the glossary entry as well; I hope that's all right with you. "Hostess" is closer to what alterne is supposed to be (and perhaps once was); "escort" is closer to what it actually is in practice. I think users will find both terms helpful.

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 03:26
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 287
Grading comment
Thanks very much and I appreciate the well-explained reasoning.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: Perfect!
0 min
  -> Thanks!

agree  Toni Castano: I agree, but would add an "s" (= escorts club), to avoid confusion with the car club (Ford Escort) :-)
7 mins
  -> I didn't think of that! We'll probably be all right as long as we don't capitalise it :) Thanks, Toni

agree  neilmac: "Gentlemen" my hirsute posterior...
9 hrs
  -> Quite! Thanks, Neil :)
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Reference comments


30 mins
Reference: 21st century prostitution

Reference information:
"Lap dancing" is increasingly popular, often lurking under the euphemism "gentlemen's clubs". Personally I prefer to call a spade a spade.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lap_dance
neilmac
Spain
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 207
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



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