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bodem- en eindafsluiter
branden
May 5, 2016 13:54
8 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Nederlands term

klein ijzer

Nederlands naar Engels Techniek Bouwkunde / civiele techniek
Staalbedrijf X levert "balken, buizen, kokerprofielen, rijplaten, damwanden of ander klein ijzer zoals een hoeklijn of strip."

Ten eerste: hoezo klein IJZER? We hadden het hier toch over staal? Of wordt ijzer hier niet letterlijk bedoeld(?!)?
Ten tweede: wat zou hiervoor de Engelse umbrella term zijn?

This baffled translator would be very grateful for your input :-)
Proposed translations (Engels)
3 +1 metal goods
4 small parts
4 -1 metal hardware
3 metal sections
References
refs
Change log

May 5, 2016 13:54: changed "Kudoz queue" from "In queue" to "Public"

Discussion

Barend van Zadelhoff May 6, 2016:
@ Emma, You should pay me at least half of what you get for this translation:

http://www.hpstaal.nl/product-information/?lang=en

:-)
Barend van Zadelhoff May 6, 2016:
On the English version it is 'small steel' :-)

http://www.hpstaal.nl/product-information/?lang=en
Barend van Zadelhoff May 6, 2016:
concrete context http://www.hpstaal.nl/productinformatie/
Michael Beijer May 6, 2016:
@freek: Instead of asking me to prove that the two Dutch phrases, "klein ijzer" and "klein ijzerwaren" are not clear-cut, well-defined concepts … to Dutch people, and are often used interchangeably …

how about you show me a few references where the two so-called distinct concepts are clearly defined? You are the Dutch native speaker and subject specialist here.
Michael Beijer May 6, 2016:
? So what do you make of the ref (re "Klein-ijzerwaren") in my comment titled "for freek"?

re the "carrying them out of the shop" aspect, I suppose that's why both IATE + Patitia added the word "small" in:

Patitia.net:
kleinijzerwaren =
small items of metal hardware

IATE:
kleinijzerwaren =
hardware of metal; ironmongery
note: small

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * okay
PS: to make yourself happy, in the above two refs, change "kleinijzerwaren" to "klein ijzer"
freekfluweel May 6, 2016:
The two Dutch phrases, "klein ijzer" and "klein ijzerwaren" are not clear-cut, well-defined concepts … to Dutch people, and are often used interchangeably.

And where did you get that?

Besides we're not dealing here with a wholesaler but with a specialist in steel (welding, cutting, stiffening) and I don't think the shop has any consumer products in store like key-rings, pocket knives, book shelves, nails, screws, etc. And those things are called: 'kleine ijzerwaren' that can be bought at your local ironmongery (MB's first answer and remaining ref).

'Klein ijzer', in an industrial setting are all things that can be carried. So a T-profile with a length of 2,5m (which I would not call 'small') can be classified as 'klein ijzer', because one man can carry the profile out of the store!
Michael Beijer May 6, 2016:
@freek: my ref (http://beijer.uk/screenshots/for-freek.png ) shows "klein-ijzerwaren" being used for exactly the same kind of industrial, non-consumer metal hardware in Asker's context.

The two Dutch phrases, "klein ijzer" and "klein ijzerwaren" are not clear-cut, well-defined concepts … to Dutch people, and are often used interchangeably. You can yell all you want, but you will remain wrong.

~

klein-ijzerwaren
kleine-ijzerwaren
klein ijzerwaren
kleine ijzerwaren
etc. ...who really cares how many different ways there are of (mis)spelling it?
Kirsten Bodart May 6, 2016:
I agree about 'klein-ijzerwaren' or 'kleine ijzerwaren', but I'm not really sure whether a steal company or 'staalbedrijf' would actually sell non-metal things... Seems a bit of a long shot.

At any rate, I'm sure Asker will know if this 'klein ijzer' included non-metal things or not.
freekfluweel May 6, 2016:
@MB: still don't get it! klein ijzer is NOT the same as kleine ijzerwaren

Sure, there are lots of hits for kleine ijzerwaren, but that's not what we're dealing here with! It's not a retailer!
Michael Beijer May 6, 2016:
interestingly, the above ref mentions that … "klein-ijzerwaren" doesn't necessarily need to be manufactured only of metal, which other sources also seem to bear out

see also: http://www.linguee.com/english-dutch/search?source=auto&quer...

Klein ijzerwaren = small hardware
Klein-ijzerwaren (die artikelen die van staal, hout, (non-ferro) metalen en kunststoffen zijn vervaardigd, die dienst doen [...] = Small ironmongery (items that are made of steel, wood, (non-ferrous) metals and synthetics that are used in the manufacture [...]
etc.
Michael Beijer May 6, 2016:
for freek: Have a look at this:

"Een Technische Groothandel is een onderneming die zich:

1. Uitsluitend of in hoofdzaak (criterium: daarbij betrokken werkuren is > 50% groothandel. NB Omzet is dus geen direct criterium!)

2. Bezig houdt met de groothandel in:

a. Staal, bijv.:
[…]
c. Metaalwaren, bijv.:
i. Grote ijzerwaren, artikelen die deel uitmaken van metaal- of staalconstructies
[…]
vi. Klein-ijzerwaren, artikelen die vervaardigd zijn van staal, hout, (non-ferro) metalen of kunststof en die dienst doen bij de vervaardiging van constructies of daarvan deel uitmaken
[…]"

I even made a nice screenshot and highlighted it just for you: http://beijer.uk/screenshots/for-freek.png

src: http://www.technischegroothandel.org/Documentatie/FKB---Fond...
Kirsten Bodart May 5, 2016:
by 'klein' they mean not as heavy and bulky as beams and things. I agree it's a bit of a workman's thing to say...

Proposed translations

-1
1 uur

metal hardware

See my Reference comment and Discussion entries.

See also:

kleinijzerwaren van metaal = metal hardware

[Patitia.net: Multilingual Glossary of Nice Classification System of goods and services relating to trademarks]

(http://cat.proz.com/?sp=gloss/term&id=24462281
)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2016-05-05 22:52:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

of ander klein ijzer = or other metal hardware
Peer comment(s):
disagree freekfluweel : Deleted your previous answer...? Second shot is even worse... / Your first answer was 'ironmongery', just like your still existing ref! And then you steel a part of LvdV's answer...
4 uren
any native speaker would know that there is basically no difference between "metal goods" and "metal hardware". I have a slight preference for the latter. / oh dear, sorry Lianne, for stealing the word "metal" ;-)
Something went wrong...
+1
10 min

metal goods

Klein ijzer is bedoeld als een algemene benaming. Hardware of selected hardware is misschien een optie (omdat uit de context blijkt dat het om vergelijkbare materialen gaat als in de rest van de opsomming) maar hardware verwijst tegenwoordig meer naar computers. Ace Hardware (US store brand) gebruikt metal goods. Dat lijkt me een betere optie.
http://www.acehardware.com/category/index.jsp?categoryId=262...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day39 mins (2016-05-06 14:33:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hieronder nog een referentie (hoewel ehow zeker niet mijn favoriete site is). Ik hou het bij metal goods maar ik denk dat het verschil met metal hardware helemaal niet zo groot is. 'Goods' is m.i. algemener, en hardware komt van 'hard ware' en verwijst meestal naar eindproducten.

"mid-15c., "small metal goods," from hard + ware (n.)."
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hardware?s=t

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_hardware
"Household hardware, or simply, hardware, is a general term for equipment that can be touched/held by hand such as screws, nuts, washers, keys, locks, hinges, latches, handles, wire, chains, belts, plumbing supplies, electrical supplies, tools, utensils, cutlery and machine parts. Household hardware is typically sold in hardware stores."

"The production of fabricated metals follows machinery in the level of manufacturing output by sector in Texas. Fabricated metal goods, products and commodities include aluminum plates, ammunition, boilers, copper wire, cutlery, hand tools, hardware products, kitchen utensils, plumbing fixtures, shipping containers, steel pipes, valves and machine shop products."
http://www.ehow.com/info_8485741_manufactured-goods-texas.ht...

Hier wordt zowel "metal goods" als "metal hardware" als "ironmongery" gebruikt, waarbij metal goods de algemene categorie is.
https://trademarks.justia.com/744/52/sogerail-74452534.html

Ijzerwaren betekent meestal schroefjes e.d., en klein ijzer verwijst naar halffabrikaten.
(ijzerwaren) https://goo.gl/0w9Cww
Peer comment(s):
agree Henk Sanderson
1 uur
Hoi Henk, bedankt!
Something went wrong...
1 dag 2 uren

metal sections

Peer comment(s):
neutral Michael Beijer : too specific. src says: "of ander klein ijzer zoals een hoeklijn of strip". i.e., it could also refer to "klein ijzer" that is not a "metal section"
3 min
Something went wrong...
10 dagen

small parts

See: http://www.britfilsteelfab.co.uk/
"Structural steel fabrication is our expertise. We fabricate steel parts and structures for builders, big or small, as well as for DIY enthusiasts. "

Something went wrong...

Reference comments

11 min
Reference:

refs

Patitia.net:
kleinijzerwaren =
small items of metal hardware

IATE:
kleinijzerwaren =
hardware of metal; ironmongery
note: small

spoorborgbouten; klein ijzerwerk van de bovenbouw
=
track fastenings
definition: Definition the hardware used to fasten the rails to the sleepers

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 29 mins (2016-05-05 14:23:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

DGT-TM-2011.tmx:
Kleinhandel in ijzerwaren, verf en glas
=
Retail sale of variety of hardware, paints and glass

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2016-05-05 14:25:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

CELEX Documents of the European Court of Justice pt3.tmx:

6 Trade mark No 2147658 was registered for the following goods: ‘common metals and their alloys, metallic construction materials, metallic portable constructions; non-electric metallic materials, metallic locksmith’s products and ironmongery; metallic tubes, safe boxes, metallic goods not comprised in other classes, minerals, metallic bed frameworks, wheels for metallic beds’, falling within Class 6.

=

6 Merk nr. 2147658 werd ingeschreven voor de volgende waren: „onedele metalen en hun legeringen; bouwmaterialen van metaal; verplaatsbare constructies van metaal; niet-elektrische metalen materialen; slotenmakerswaren van metaal en kleinijzerwaren; metalen buizen; brandkasten; metaalwaren voor zover niet begrepen in andere klassen; ertsen, metalen bedarmaturen en metalen wieltjes voor bedden” van klasse 6.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2016-05-05 17:33:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

kleinijzerwaren van metaal = metal hardware

[Patitia.net: Multilingual Glossary of Nice Classification System of goods and services relating to trademarks]
Peer comments on this reference comment:
disagree freekfluweel : 'kleinijzerwaren' (voor consumenten) is geheel iets anders dan 'klein ijzer' (voor industrie) / any refs to back this up?
35 min
Sorry, you are wrong. They are sometimes used as synonyms. / sure, try this: https://www.google.nl/#q=kleinijzerwaren industrie + my latest Discussion entry
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