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magistrat mandant
Mar 10, 2017 09:45
7 yrs ago
6 viewers *
French term

marques de consécration

French to English Social Sciences Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc. Sociology of education
Hello, in the following sentence (which is talking about the results of a sociological survey of teachers who studied at the prestigious École normales supérieure) :
" Nos résultats plaident ainsi pour une inscription plus systématique de ces expériences dans le temps long des biographies individuelles, afin de saisir non seulement ce que fait l’apposition de marques de consécration aux individus mais également ce qu’ils et elles en font. "
What do you think of 'stamps of recognition' for 'marques de consécration'?:
'Our results thus call for these experiences to be included in a more systematic way in long-term individual biographies, to understand not only what the apposition of stamps of recognition does to individuals, but also what they do with them.

Also, would you say 'consecration' can ever be used in the same way in English (with the meaning of 'recognition'?) Is there any other word that would work?
Proposed translations (English)
3 marks/ symbols of intellectual achievement
4 hommages
3 acclaim / honours/ commendations/ tributes/ accolades / etc
Change log

Mar 10, 2017 10:14: Platary (X) changed "Language pair" from "English to French" to "French to English"

Mar 10, 2017 17:37: Yolanda Broad changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (3): Charles Davis, Steffen Walter, Yolanda Broad

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Discussion

Delaina (asker) Mar 13, 2017:
Thanks @katsy Great! Yes, all your comments are directly related to the subject of this paper. I'll make a note to direct you to it once published. Many thanks to you all.
katsy Mar 10, 2017:
How very interesting Delaina! In my experience, those who finished ENS (I'm talking of Ulm and St Cloud /Fontenay(later Lyon)) in the mid-70s were the last generation for whom a post in higher education practically went without saying. I have memories of friends graduating at that time who spent at most two years in secondary education before moving into prépa or university. After that, it was often 'just' a lycée, and I understand that some graduates of ENS would feel pretty bitter. However, I personally know none who have stayed at secondary level - this is no doubt a "generation" thing! Nonetheless, "the glory that is (not Paris) ENS" is definitely not "of another day" (or if I am to quote correctly "sadly gay").... I'd be really interested to read what you're translating!
Delaina (asker) Mar 10, 2017:
Hi everyone, thanks for all your help. First, apologies for the difficulty of this one. It comes in the conclusion of a complex sociological paper, and was hard to sum up in a few words. But your're all very close to what the author's driving at. @Katsy, your point about normaliens ending up teaching in lycées etc is the exact subject of the paper.
The para that this sentence is found in begins by talking about 'the social construction of class and reputation', and in one sense, the 'marques de consécration' are related to this, but also to the fact of being admitted into the ENS hall of fame. But 'status symbols' is actually good...
Don't worry, it all makes a bit more sense within the greater context. Here's what I'm working with now:
'Our results thus call for these experiences to be viewed more systematically within a longer-term, individual biographical context to understand not only what the achievement of such status symbols does to individuals, but also what they do with them.'
Charles Davis Mar 10, 2017:
@Delaina Does the wider context enable you to deduce what this is actually talking about? I have come into contact with a number of normaliens in my life, and when I read that it was about teachers who studied at the ENS, the first thing "apposition de marques de consécration" suggested to me was the way they bear the stamp of being "consecrated" in the sense of "anointed", that air of being a member of the chosen few that they often carry with them (and many of them tend to see themselves that way, rather like Oxbridge people in the UK). "Apposition" (for which you can't use apposition in English, by the way) suggests being more or less permanently stamped with an indelible mark. So rather than referring to actual honours received, "consécration" is perhaps being used here (somewhat ironically) in something like its literal sense of having been admitted to a kind of priesthood. But I may be way off the track here.
Carol Gullidge Mar 10, 2017:
instead of "stamps of recognition", which doesn't really sound very English to my UK ears, how about simply something along the lines of "awards", or "accolades"? Or do these not sound grand enough?
Carol Gullidge Mar 10, 2017:
I would say "no" the word "consecration" cannot be used in this way, at least not in UK English; generally speaking, it has quite a different meaning
HERBET Abel Mar 10, 2017:
Recognition is generally for a short or not so long period
But consecration is almost for ever

Proposed translations

4 hrs
Selected

marks/ symbols of intellectual achievement

I was very tempted at first just to put " (intellectual) status symbols". The fact that one is/has been a 'normalien' can indeed be something to showcase, in particular in "dîners en ville", and in the media (Alain Finkielkraut in political analysis, and Edouard Louis in literature being cases in point). However the vast majority of normaliens in my experience end up being teachers in lycées, classes prépa, universities, not necessarily bound for fame and glory. The "status symbol" part is nevertheless true, and a way to impress if one wants to do so, and can be one's "titre de gloire" (ie, a reason to show off!). The friends I have who were normaliens are not so gung ho about trumpeting it around, though they are certainly proud of their achivement (and rightly so, I would claim).
As for "temps long des biographies", why not envisage something like .... "to be included in biographies viewed in their entirety..." ie, if I understand it rightly, that this achievement has repercussions not only in the person's 20's (when he/she is in an ENS) but over their whole lifetime.
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3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
2 hrs

acclaim / honours/ commendations/ tributes/ accolades / etc

E.g., ... understand not only how individuals are affected by such acclaim, but also ...

You could of course pad out "how" into "the manner in which"

These are just a few examples of how you can avoid "consecration"; no doubt there are better ones.

Incidentally, I don't think that the translation of "... dans le temps long des biographies individuelles" can feasibly be "in long-term individual biographies"... That little word "des" must not be ignored, and in any case "long-term biographies" doesn't make sense!
But to be honest, the ST also doesn't make total sense to me :(
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6 hrs

hommages

suggéré
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