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Service commun des laboratoires DGCCRF et de la DGGDI
Sep 27, 2018 15:47
5 yrs ago
French term

en terre douce

French to English Other Tourism & Travel
This is a tourist website for the Haut Rhôone area of France. There are two sentences where this term is used, and I'm unsure as to what is means. Can anyone help?

Vous y trouverez toutes les informations pratiques et les bons plans pour découvrir ou redécouvrir ce magnifique territoire et ainsi naviguer en famille en terre douce.

Naviguez en terre douce

Many thanks

Alison
Proposed translations (English)
5 +2 in an enchanting / charming / lovely / fascinating land
4 +2 lovely region
3 some ideas
3 these pleasant landscapes
3 wander the welcoming realms
3 turning your family navigation into plain sailing /Getting around will be plain sailing...
References
In context
douce - many possible meanings

Discussion

Carol Gullidge Sep 28, 2018:
@ Asker - check with the author! It's important to know what that "y" (as in Vous y trouverez toutes les informations...) stands for. Does it refer to the website itself, or to a guide book or a even tourist office?
You state that this IS a tourist website, and not that it is referring to one, implying that the text is actually taken directly from the website... This knowledge could make a big difference to the interpretation of the (somewhat brief!) text
AllegroTrans Sep 28, 2018:
Asker As you can see, this question is generating some fairly wide-ranging ideas. Basically it's because there is little context here and we don't know what is the focus of your text. Is it aimed at the casual tourist or could it even be about a river cruise along the Rhône?
Tony M Sep 28, 2018:
@ SafeTex I think one of the problems here is that many suggestions include the notion of 'wandering', which suggests something fairly aimless and random; whereas if we take 'navigate' in its primary, literal sense, it very specifically means 'find your way around skillfully and purposefully'. I believe that notion carries over into its secondary, often more figurative senses. And I suspect that is the intended idea here: "We'll help you find your way around our beautiful area and get the most out of your visit."

If the websites is very much linked to the actual River Rhône, perhaps using it as some kind of 'fil conducteur', then it might even be a direct allusion to inland waterways and the major transport route that the Rhône is of course so famous as.
SafeTex Sep 27, 2018:
@ all It's a pity that the asker only asked about "en terre douce" and not "naviguer en terre douce" as that is the other half of the problem. After reading a comment by Tony M, I think the verb may end up being "sail" or "surf" cos "browse" and "navigate" don't sound right to me.
katsy Sep 27, 2018:
@ph-b Oooh, I'm sure they did it on purpose.... (;-)) Something romantic about the water image. I personally would say "gentle" should get a look in somewhere... "roaming gently through" .... but not terribly inspired I must say!!
ph-b (X) Sep 27, 2018:
Tony and Katsy, I agree that Tony's idea ("browse" and "check what's on offer") is probably the way to go here. And Katsy, I agree that the phrase couldn't possibly be meant in a negative way (it's advertising, after all); it's just that it sounded as if the authors had got their metaphors all mixed up. Thanks for "landlubber" - that's the word I was looking for.
AllegroTrans Sep 27, 2018:
Marketing language indeed!.. And how you "translate" this will largely depend on the overall style you adopt as well as the focus of the source text. It's all a matter of copywriting a coherent piece, rather than translating.
katsy Sep 27, 2018:
@ph-b in particular I agree that "marin d'eau douce" can be derogatory (landlubber) .... but not always, especially if one is "en train de naviguer" and not taking oneself for a "marin"..... But I do think that it is some bright idea (in a non-seafaring/marine area) for saying that the land /area is pleasant, and that you can wander/float around.... one is nowhere near the sea in the Auvergne Haut-Rhône area.... for of course the name of the area is that of one of the major rivers of France.... As for suggesting a translation, well, for the moment that is something else as far as I'm concerned. But my first idea was to say that the connotation is not necessarily negative.
Tony M Sep 27, 2018:
@ Asker Marketing language!
It sounds very much to me as if they have coined this expression — perhaps also with a clin d'œil à « Douce France » — because they couldn't think of anything very concrete to say about their "nice part of France"!
As ph-b says, ideally you need to ask the writer what (on earth!) they were thinking of; otherwise, I'd say just do a good copywriting job.

By the way, also don't forget that 'naviguer' is a buzzword in terms of 'browsing' the Internet — possibly this was (even unconsciously) lurking somewhere there at the back of their mind — "browsing" in the sense of looking around and seeing what's on offer; a bit more modern perhaps than the well-worn 'découvrir'...
Daryo Sep 27, 2018:
this not being a legal document where even a single wrong punctuation could spell disaster, I don't think it's worth worrying too much about the finest nuances of meaning. Anything resembling the ST and making the visit to Haut Rhône sound like an attractive proposition could do.
ph-b (X) Sep 27, 2018:
Weird... Naviguer en terre douce?! Odd... Some bright spark trying to be creative and getting it desperately wrong? :-) I didn't know one could naviguer en terre and while I'm happy to allow for poetic licence, it rather sounds as if they've coined this new phrase from naviguer en eau douce, which, unfortunately in this case, refers to a person without much experience, like a sailor who's never been in a sea-faring ship and only ever did river-sailing (marin d'eau douce), which is somewhat derogatory and doesn't sound too positive. Or am I reading too much in this? The translation suggestions below do make sense, but it might be a good idea to ask the author/client what they actually mean.

Proposed translations

+2
1 hr
Selected

in an enchanting / charming / lovely / fascinating land

It calls for some adaptation or creative trans.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Daryo : CL5? otherwise, yes ... that's the general idea.
21 mins
neutral Tony M : This sort of idea, yes — though I think this use of 'land' is rather old-fashioned now in EN: "land of our fathers" / "land of the free" ; "..;-country" is still used, like "Brontë country, Hardy country", etc., but I don't really think that works here.
2 hrs
agree Philippa Smith : Unlike Tony, I think "land" is just right here (and having looked at the website), e.g. "Discover an enchanting land" (and then "explore our region" for "découvrir notre territoire")
16 hrs
agree GILLES MEUNIER
3 days 13 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
40 mins

some ideas

It depends a lot on the exact context, but any of these could fit:
off the beaten track
green lanes
away from the highways
scenic byways
footpaths
bridleways

Of course, they may need to be fitted into the sentence in different ways.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Daryo : scenic byways - maybe.
2 hrs
Thanks
neutral Tony M : I agree in principle with this type of suggestion — but I can't help feeling that most of these place rather too much emphasis on a rural setting, which may not be entirely what was meant, overall...
2 hrs
That could be true, Tony, though it doesn't conjure up a city setting for me either. Like most marketing-type questions, you really need the entire context in front of you
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55 mins

these pleasant landscapes

..

et ainsi naviguer en famille en terre douce.

and so find your way in these pleasant landscapes
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : Again, I find placing too much emphasis on the scenery may not be ideal here.
2 hrs
it's just my first instinctive reaction - first association.
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

wander the welcoming realms

Hello

Before you shoot this down, please see my reference in the reference section cos only then does it make any sense.

naviguez = wander
douce = welcoming, a bit like home sweet home
realms = all the aspects of the region

Peer comment(s):
neutral Jennifer White : a realm is a kingdom, surely?
24 mins
Hello JW: It's got secondary meanings too. I quote one dico:a particular environment or walk of life. The point though was to signal the site and try to come up with a solution in that context. I'm open to other ideas.
neutral Daryo : synonyms: kingdom, sovereign state, monarchy; empire, principality, palatinate, duchy; country, land, domain, dominion, nation, province - not quite, but OTOH this is a kind of texts where poetic licence is not forbidden.
33 mins
neutral Tony M : Poetic language / licence is one thing; but IMHO this is taking it into a whole different register, which I sense would be unwelcome here...
59 mins
neutral AllegroTrans : rathe too fanciful and ott imho
1 hr
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+2
3 hrs

lovely region

Perhaps in the first instance where the term is used, you might consider "wander through this lovely region", and in the second instance, use a slightly different phrase, such as "explore this lovely area".
Peer comment(s):
agree AllegroTrans : best suggestion so far but I would like to see the whole text
12 mins
neutral Tony M : I'm afraid that's rather like "damning with faint praise" as the Bard said — a bit like saying it is 'nice'; and 'wandering' suggests something perhaps less purposeful than 'naviguer'...,
19 mins
I agree about "wandering" being less purposeful. Maybe "plan your family's journey through this lovely region" would be an improvement, since the source mentions "naviguer en famille".
agree Gordon Matthews : "(find your way around/wander through this) lovely region" seems to me to be the best solution. "land" is somewhat old-fashioned and more limited to rocks, soil and landscape. "region" is a commonly used and understood term which is more comprehensive.
14 hrs
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23 hrs
French term (edited): naviguer en famille en terre douce

turning your family navigation into plain sailing /Getting around will be plain sailing...

...Here, you'll find all the practical info and great ideas for ....., making plain sailing of your website navigation

WHERE navigating COULD refer to ease of navigating the website, or simply to getting around in situ during your family break.

It would be essential to ascertain what the author has in mind with both "y" and "naviguer".
There arises even the possibility of simply "... navigating the website from the comfort of your own home/armchair...", the idea being either that the website is easy to navigate or that by using it you can iron out all the details/sort out the nitty-gritty before even setting out on your journey

Medium CL, as the ST is currently too ambiguous to be make it possible to be totally confident

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2018-09-28 15:21:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

SORRY, I've only just seen SafeTex's Reference, which makes some of my suggestions above obsolete. Apologies for this, but I think that a lot of what I say above still stands, especially the idea of "making plain sailing of your website navigation"
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

In context

Hello

It's interesting to visit the website and on the home page see "naviguez en terre douce" over three pictures that appear and what you can discover if you click on the link below the phrase (animations, territoire, et patrimoine)
I kind of feel that any solution offered has to fit in here and even encompass all of these things (not just landscape or land). It also rules out any choice that is too limiting like "bridleway", at least on the home page.
Reference:

https://www.hautrhone-tourisme.fr/en/

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Tony M : More than ever, this makes me think the writer was using 'naviguer' in the Internet sense of 'browse', with a rather ill-placed nod as ph-b says to 'naviguer en eau douce' — to some extent, a 'fair-weather sailor'!
1 hr
agree AllegroTrans
1 hr
agree ph-b (X)
1 hr
agree Carol Gullidge
21 hrs
Something went wrong...
3 hrs
Reference:

douce - many possible meanings

doux adjective, masculine (douce f sl, doux m pl, douces f pl)
soft adj
L'enfant a caressé la douce fourrure du lapin. The child stroked the rabbit's soft fur.
Le tissu de ma robe est très doux. The fabric of my dress is very soft.
mild adj
Je n'utilise que du savon doux car j'ai la peau sensible. I only use mild soap because I have sensitive skin.
L'hiver a été doux cette année. Winter has been mild this year.
smooth adj
La peau du bébé est très douce. The baby's skin is very smooth.
gentle adj
J'utilise un savon doux pour me nettoyer le visage. I use a gentle soap to cleanse my face.
delicate adj
Les fleurs emplissent l'air d'un doux parfum. The flowers fill the air with a delicate scent.
tender adj
Ma femme a toujours été douce avec moi. My wife has always been tender with me.
kind adj
Le professeur de mon fils est toujours très doux et patient. My son's teacher is always very kind and patient.
meek adj
Mon frère a toujours été doux et calme. My brother has always been meek and quiet.
less common: sweet adj
·
mellow adj
·
balmy adj
·
downy adj
Examples:
pente douce f—gentle incline n
·
gentle gradient n
musique douce f—soothing music n
lumière douce f—gentle light n
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Daryo
41 mins
thanks
neutral Carol Gullidge : all this is very true but very basic, and I can't really see what your point is...
19 hrs
the point is to get the akser thinking laterally
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