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guitare lyrique sans cordes
Nov 30, 2018 20:26
5 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term

chiffre

Non-PRO French to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters Cooking / Culinary / etiquette
Les couverts dressés vers le haut quand l’argenterie est française ; toujours garder le chiffre arrondi vers le haut, petite spécificité française
Proposed translations (English)
4 +10 monogram
4 -3 number
References
Chiffre - fwiw/hth
Change log

Nov 30, 2018 20:54: writeaway changed "Field (write-in)" from "etiquette" to "Cooking / Culinary / etiquette"

Dec 1, 2018 08:39: Carol Gullidge changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (3): Daryo, philgoddard, Tony M

Non-PRO (3): mchd, Rachel Fell, Carol Gullidge

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Discussion

ph-b (X) Dec 1, 2018:
Oui ou non ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there are about 67,000,000 French people as of today, and many more Francophones. I wouldn't be at all surprised if 97.5% of them simply have no idea that chiffre can mean initals/monogram in the right context (as is the case here). Additionnally, a lot of them wouldn't know what monogramme means and I'm pretty sure that the same applies to "monogram" in the UK (I wouldn't know about other English-speaking nations). Nor would I be surprised if that figure was even higher among bilinguals. I've no idea why some people appear to think this is a non-pro question and that the vast majority of bilinguals could answer this question without a dictionary. Perhaps they could give their reasons? Having said that, I won't vote for Pro or non-Pro. I never have: it's a ridiculous exercise and I can't help wondering about its actual purpose. Playing that game would give it far too much importance.
Tony M Dec 1, 2018:
@ All Here is the ProZ.com confirmation message when you vote a question 'non-pro':

"Are you sure that this question could be answered by any bilingual person without the aid of a dictionary?"

I don't see how anyone voting here could put hand on heart and say that was the case here.
Tony M Dec 1, 2018:
@ Phil I totally agree! This is a specialist technical term, and would not be known "by any normally bilingual person without the use of a dictionary"
The fact that it is easy enough to find with only a little research does NOT make it 'non-pro'.
writeaway Dec 1, 2018:
Imo It was voted non-pro because it can be found in any basic Fr-En dictionary.
philgoddard Dec 1, 2018:
This is a pro question in my opinion. I didn't know what it meant until I read Tony's answer. One more vote would make it pro again :-)

Proposed translations

+10
53 mins
Selected

monogram

Etc.

This article explains it perfectly: the 'chiffre' is the family crest, monogram etc. which curiously on French seems to be engraved on what we would call the 'back' of the handle; so 'vers le haut / bas' means which way up the fork is, ie. with the prongs pointing up in the air (normal English way) or with the prongs turned dow towards the tablecloth (the French way).

https://www.marmiton.org/forum/troc-services-adresses/dans-q...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 54 mins (2018-11-30 21:21:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Although from the snippet of context given, it sounds as if this particualr cutlery is more like English cutlery: with the fork placed prongs up, you can still read the monogram on the rounded end of the hanlde part.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 56 mins (2018-11-30 21:23:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This page has an image of silverware of this type (scroll down to see the image):

http://www.artetcuriosites.com/archives/2015/12/04/32963360....
Peer comment(s):
agree ph-b (X)
8 mins
Merci, ph-b !
agree Philippa Smith
15 mins
Thanks, Philippa!
agree Nicole Acher
23 mins
Merci Nicole!
agree Odette Grille (X)
31 mins
Merci, Odette !
agree philgoddard : It's similar to the English 'cipher', meaning initials intertwined to form a monogram.
58 mins
Thanks, Phil!
agree Gillian Smithers
1 hr
Thanks, Gillian!
agree writeaway : also easily found in everyday basic Fr-En dicos
2 hrs
Thanks, W/A! Yes... though I don't think it's the sort of term that would be on the tip of everyone's tongue.
agree AllegroTrans
5 hrs
Thanks, C!
agree Carol Gullidge
11 hrs
Thanks, Carol!
agree LouiseNorman (X) : Good research, Tony!
5 days
Thanks, Louise!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you"
-3
20 mins

number

This may refer to a recipe. The advice is to round the number up when working with French recipes.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : That doesn't make any sense at all in the given context, which is talking about 'couverts' and setting the table.
28 mins
Monogram does make sense in this context, though I had not seen "chiffre" used that way before.
disagree Odette Grille (X) : They mean the family initials, i.e. monogram
1 hr
disagree AllegroTrans : If you read the sentence this cannot possibly make sense
6 hrs
I wrongly interpreted the sentence as commentary on loosely related topics - setting a table in France, working with French recipes, etc.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

3 hrs
Reference:

Chiffre - fwiw/hth

chiffre [ʃifr]
nom masculin
Larousse:
[initiales] initials
[à l'ancienne] monogram

Robert Collins:
e (= initiales)(set of) initials • monogram
■ mouchoir brodé à son chiffre : handkerchief embroidered with one's initials ou monogram
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Rachel Fell
42 mins
agree Tony M
8 hrs
agree Carol Gullidge : Indeed, basic dictionary work!
8 hrs
Something went wrong...
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